Episode 45: The Impact of UDL in the Classroom
Help us welcome Nate Ridgway to the show as we dive into Universal Design for Learning equity, differentiation, and....probably all the other things!
Nate is a tech-loving history and educational consultant from Indianapolis, Indiana and author of two books on teaching. Don’t Ditch That Tech: Differentiation in a Digital World, and Breaking the Blockbuster Model: Using Edtech and Accessibility to “See What’s Next” in Classrooms. He was the Indiana Connected Educator of the Year in 2020 and his work has been featured in such publications as the New York Times and Washington Post. He also holds a Master’s Degree in History from the University of Indianapolis. He is currently in the early stages of drafting his third book, this one themed on the intersection of AI, pedagogy, and creativity.
Want to learn more from Nate, here are the links:
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Welcome to the Under the Hat podcast,
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the show where we talk
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about everything and
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anything that is top of
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mind in education.
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The goal is to provide
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meaningful conversations to
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what is currently happening
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in our classrooms, stories, pains,
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moments of success.
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We want to hear it all.
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Friends, I am back in the chair.
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I've been out for, I think,
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at least two episodes for
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things like a five K sick
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stuff of that nature.
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Sophie, though, is gone for this episode.
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So just the way things have turned out,
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she's on her way back from FTC.
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So she's literally up in the air.
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But I'm super pumped to be here.
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I get to chat and we get to
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hear and learn alongside Sophie.
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the phenomenal Nate Ridgeway.
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Nate, thanks for being here, sir.
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Thanks so much for having me.
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Phenomenal is a strong word,
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but I appreciate it.
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No, no, no, no.
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I've always been looking at your work,
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looking at your perspective in education.
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I know that this is our
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first time meeting face-to-face,
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but your work has always
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resonated with me,
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with someone that
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appreciates the leveling
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the playing field in education,
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things like project-based learning and
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And we were both history
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teachers as far as, you know, yeah.
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So, and, you know, just really,
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really excited for the conversation.
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And before we really get things going,
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Nate,
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we're going to talk a lot about what
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you're currently working on in a bit,
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but very keen to hear, you know,
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where you came from and
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what your journey was into education.
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Yeah, so yeah, so hi everybody,
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I'm Nate Ridgeway.
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So I am a, let's see,
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a decade into educating now, I'll say.
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So I...
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You know,
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kind of how I came to the
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education career was a lot for my family.
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My grandfather was a school
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superintendent out in Western Indiana,
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which is where I am right now.
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And then my mom was a
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university professor who
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taught people how to become teachers.
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So let's just say there was
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a lot of influence going, you know,
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in that direction in terms
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of my career goals.
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Right.
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However, when I wanted to become a teacher,
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I was like,
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I'm going to become a music educator.
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I'm really passionate about music.
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I had done the whole band
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thing in high school.
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And I was like,
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I want to do that for kids.
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And then I got into college
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and realized that was just
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a gigantic hole of black time,
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was doing music in college.
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And so I was like, maybe not that.
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I go with my second passion,
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which is history.
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And so I started off in history.
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And I also got my
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specialization in special
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ed because I was very
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passionate about providing, you know,
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equitable learning
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opportunities for students
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who were neurodivergent or, you know,
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diverse learners.
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And so my first gig was
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actually a special education position.
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And then I transitioned
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after a year of doing that
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to just history teaching
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for about the next eight years.
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And now, since doing that,
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I transitioned to the
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private sector and I've
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also picked up doing some
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teaching at the university
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level at my alma mater,
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which is the University of Indianapolis.
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So, yes, it's been quite a ride.
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Yeah.
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I'm sorry,
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but what's really interesting is
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your story is very similar
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to mine as I actually
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started in music ed first.
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Oh, there you go.
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And then transitioned into social studies.
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So I was listening to it and I was like,
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that's kind of interesting.
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Yep.
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But yeah, no.
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So special ed,
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I think that's such an important...
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piece of conversation that I
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don't know that we're
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preparing teachers for and
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yeah what I mean by that is
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like I remember getting
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like an ounce of training
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in the credentialing levels
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and how like I I did a lot
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of my learning around it
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once I was in the profession and
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awesome right like there's
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PD on it but being someone
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that kind of like you
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mentioned like training
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teachers like that's the
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space that I'm in I do find
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it interesting how like
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We're not like we do and we
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don't like it's like, oh,
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we're peppering this thing in.
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But it's yeah, it's it's breadth,
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not depth.
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Right.
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And that's something, too,
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that I've become
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increasingly concerned as
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I've seen the educator
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pipeline become really restricted.
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And as like here in Indiana
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and this is happening in
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other states as well as that,
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like the bar to become a
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teacher is this kind of
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continually getting lowered and lowered.
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Well, unfortunately,
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sometimes one of the first
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things to go in terms of
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our teacher educator prep
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programs is work on how to
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help students who have
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learning disabilities.
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They might have autism.
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Who knows?
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Right.
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But the tendency that I have
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seen is that the amount of
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prep and training on that has
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either increased with some
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schools of education
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becoming more aware of the
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issue or with some states, you know,
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state board of educations
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on like the policy side of things,
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I've seen more like, you know,
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we just need to get people,
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like we need bodies in classrooms.
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And then that kind of
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becomes more or less like an afterthought,
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which is again,
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to the detriment of all
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those students and their families, right?
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But yeah, for me,
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when I started doing the SPED work,
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for me,
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it was a big social justice
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component because I just
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really wanted to make sure
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that the students who I had
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under my wing were able to
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still enjoy the same
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activities and academic
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opportunities and
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skill-based learnings and
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who knows what as their peers.
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Yeah,
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and I don't want to make an
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assumption or put words in your mouth,
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but I...
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was it useful to do sped
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first and then go into a content?
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Like,
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I'm just thinking that probably- Yeah, no,
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it really was because like
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the amount of like teachers
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who I would work with,
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especially like once I
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started like on like the
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book circuit and-
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you know,
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started like interacting with
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people who are outside of
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my immediate school building,
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like the amount of school
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teachers who would like I would say, hey,
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like, so like,
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tell me what you know about RTI.
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Right.
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And they'd be like,
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I don't know what that means.
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Right.
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Or, you know, like I would, you know,
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again,
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UDL isn't necessarily connected to
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special ed, but it does have a lot,
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you know, that kind of parallels with it.
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I would say like, hey, like,
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tell me about like,
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how does your like how do
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you help your students with social needs?
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address some of like,
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how do you address that
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through like in UDL lens?
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And they're like,
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I have no idea what UDL is.
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Right.
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So like,
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I feel like there's some things
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that by the very process of
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you going through the special education,
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you know,
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just pipeline that you become
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much more aware of some,
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I'll say like mental
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constructions that you need
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to be aware of.
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And then that's not all.
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That's also, you know,
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there's a whole bunch of
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policy things that you become really,
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really aware of too.
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Right.
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Because then you understand
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like the impact of,
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you know,
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that like progress monitoring has,
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you have a much better, I think,
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than maybe just your,
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I'm going to say like vanilla educator,
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which there's no such thing,
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but vanilla educator,
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like then like the impact
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of like data and like how
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that's tracked through a system, right?
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So like,
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I think there's a few different
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things there that kind of
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like a special education
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mind is more aware of when
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they first enter a
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classroom than if you
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weren't taught that way.
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yeah and I remember and I I
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I know I've shared this
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before on the show but
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towards the end of me being
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in the in the high school
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classroom before I left um
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I did have a student
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teacher who you know she
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came in with like this is
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what teaching is like she
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she had this like
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this perspective of like, oh,
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I'm going to I really love history,
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so I'm going to lecture at
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kids and then hopefully they get excited.
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And like she had like more
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of like an old school mindset going on.
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No fault on her, though, just like,
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you know, part of the system.
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And she came into my
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classroom and she like we
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were kind of talking about, you know,
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modifications, accommodations.
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And she's like, Steve,
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I feel like you like you
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provide it to everyone.
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And I'm like, yeah,
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if you provide it to everyone,
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that burden of like having
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however many IEP students
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or however many English
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language learners or like whatever,
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all the other, you know,
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diversity that's in the classroom,
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that is less of a burden now.
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Because if you do it for all, then it just,
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and so, and that's where like during,
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you know, my earlier years,
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I had no idea what UDL was,
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but I was doing it.
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yeah purely because there
00:08:57.629 --> 00:08:58.431
was like that level of
00:08:58.490 --> 00:09:00.373
compassion right yeah and
00:09:00.753 --> 00:09:01.793
and the truth be told like
00:09:01.813 --> 00:09:02.774
that's something like when
00:09:02.975 --> 00:09:03.696
I've gone and I've talked
00:09:03.716 --> 00:09:04.616
to schools and educators
00:09:04.677 --> 00:09:05.758
before they're like oh god
00:09:05.817 --> 00:09:06.698
now we have to do this like
00:09:06.798 --> 00:09:08.039
udl thing that he's talking
00:09:08.059 --> 00:09:09.782
about it's like in ninety
00:09:09.802 --> 00:09:10.623
five percent of the
00:09:10.663 --> 00:09:11.443
circumstances you're
00:09:11.464 --> 00:09:12.625
probably already doing
00:09:12.705 --> 00:09:13.645
something that falls under
00:09:13.686 --> 00:09:15.927
that framework right and
00:09:16.467 --> 00:09:18.490
like oftentimes it's just
00:09:18.590 --> 00:09:20.892
giving you the uh you know like
00:09:21.690 --> 00:09:22.691
either the research-based
00:09:22.711 --> 00:09:23.832
background to know that, yes,
00:09:23.873 --> 00:09:24.854
you really are having like
00:09:24.874 --> 00:09:25.855
a very powerful impact
00:09:25.875 --> 00:09:27.015
through your teaching and
00:09:27.035 --> 00:09:28.677
you're doing like good, you know,
00:09:29.778 --> 00:09:30.821
good UDL work,
00:09:30.900 --> 00:09:32.101
even though you may not call it that,
00:09:32.402 --> 00:09:32.623
right?
00:09:33.222 --> 00:09:33.403
Right.
00:09:33.563 --> 00:09:34.024
But well,
00:09:34.144 --> 00:09:36.447
and so I've seen it done both
00:09:36.506 --> 00:09:38.528
ways and I've delivered UDL.
00:09:38.649 --> 00:09:38.809
Mm-hmm.
00:09:39.542 --> 00:09:41.205
And let's just talk about that.
00:09:41.546 --> 00:09:43.128
When I deliver a PD,
00:09:43.207 --> 00:09:44.009
I've done it in the past
00:09:44.049 --> 00:09:45.631
where... You know the
00:09:45.652 --> 00:09:47.034
graphics that they have
00:09:47.916 --> 00:09:49.197
where it has all the verbiage?
00:09:50.019 --> 00:09:51.501
When I first started training on it,
00:09:51.682 --> 00:09:52.764
I would show people that
00:09:52.884 --> 00:09:53.566
and it was just like...
00:09:54.337 --> 00:09:54.717
Nope.
00:09:55.118 --> 00:09:57.158
Yeah, the eyes glaze over immediately.
00:09:57.658 --> 00:09:58.339
Glaze over.
00:09:59.320 --> 00:10:00.980
I've been, like, in the last couple years,
00:10:01.019 --> 00:10:02.520
I've really just been leaning into,
00:10:02.640 --> 00:10:03.780
I don't even say UDL.
00:10:04.421 --> 00:10:05.562
I just show them how.
00:10:06.022 --> 00:10:06.381
Like, hey,
00:10:06.422 --> 00:10:08.722
here's a few strategies that I used.
00:10:09.123 --> 00:10:11.123
And they're like, oh, that's really smart.
00:10:11.243 --> 00:10:12.203
Or, hey, oh, that's...
00:10:13.083 --> 00:10:13.904
that makes it way more
00:10:13.945 --> 00:10:16.087
accessible or this idea of
00:10:16.148 --> 00:10:17.188
giving choice right in
00:10:17.389 --> 00:10:19.192
representation and like and
00:10:19.272 --> 00:10:20.393
how engagement can change
00:10:20.813 --> 00:10:23.277
and so to me like once they
00:10:23.417 --> 00:10:24.337
once you get the hook
00:10:24.538 --> 00:10:25.278
they're like you're
00:10:25.298 --> 00:10:26.900
probably already doing some
00:10:26.941 --> 00:10:28.964
of this um yeah how can we
00:10:28.984 --> 00:10:30.385
like dial things up a little bit
00:10:30.785 --> 00:10:30.985
Yeah.
00:10:31.086 --> 00:10:32.368
And usually I found the
00:10:32.408 --> 00:10:33.187
exact same thing when I
00:10:33.227 --> 00:10:33.808
start talking with
00:10:33.869 --> 00:10:35.691
educators directly about like, okay,
00:10:35.711 --> 00:10:37.032
so here's the outcomes that
00:10:37.052 --> 00:10:37.873
this is going to deliver
00:10:37.893 --> 00:10:38.614
because adult based
00:10:38.653 --> 00:10:41.076
learners are very need focused, right?
00:10:42.256 --> 00:10:44.178
We only typically adult learners,
00:10:44.399 --> 00:10:45.320
according to Malcolm Knowles,
00:10:46.301 --> 00:10:47.802
we tend to focus on things
00:10:47.841 --> 00:10:49.563
that we need to know,
00:10:49.644 --> 00:10:50.404
and that's what we then
00:10:50.465 --> 00:10:52.506
focus on our learning energies towards.
00:10:52.947 --> 00:10:55.328
right um and as soon as you
00:10:55.369 --> 00:10:57.291
say like well your learners
00:10:57.390 --> 00:10:58.892
are craving for some kind
00:10:58.912 --> 00:11:00.253
of agency in the classroom
00:11:00.373 --> 00:11:01.533
and you're like oh I see
00:11:01.573 --> 00:11:02.414
through this strategy I'm
00:11:02.475 --> 00:11:03.875
giving them I'm empowering
00:11:03.895 --> 00:11:05.177
them right like all of a
00:11:05.197 --> 00:11:06.177
sudden lights start turning
00:11:06.298 --> 00:11:07.158
you know start turning on
00:11:07.219 --> 00:11:07.840
but as soon as you're like
00:11:08.200 --> 00:11:08.961
let's learn about a
00:11:09.041 --> 00:11:10.182
framework you know again
00:11:10.221 --> 00:11:11.482
yeah it's just no nothing
00:11:11.523 --> 00:11:13.063
happens yeah because it's
00:11:13.183 --> 00:11:13.865
it's because there's not a
00:11:13.924 --> 00:11:16.005
need base to know right um
00:11:16.807 --> 00:11:18.008
and yeah so like I think
00:11:18.028 --> 00:11:18.969
there's kind of a key like
00:11:19.009 --> 00:11:19.769
a couple keywords that I
00:11:19.789 --> 00:11:20.691
always kind of hone in on
00:11:20.791 --> 00:11:21.611
with folks when I'm doing
00:11:21.652 --> 00:11:23.014
like you know pd or you're
00:11:23.033 --> 00:11:23.815
talking with folks about it
00:11:23.835 --> 00:11:25.035
like one is the agency word
00:11:25.056 --> 00:11:26.216
that I mentioned I think
00:11:26.256 --> 00:11:28.038
the other is like um like a
00:11:28.119 --> 00:11:29.460
choice which which again
00:11:29.600 --> 00:11:30.581
you know is something that
00:11:30.601 --> 00:11:32.082
kind of oftentimes just
00:11:32.102 --> 00:11:33.244
directly correlates agency
00:11:33.445 --> 00:11:35.125
multiple is usually another
00:11:35.206 --> 00:11:36.106
one so like how I'll have
00:11:36.148 --> 00:11:36.927
kids be able to do this
00:11:36.947 --> 00:11:38.090
through multiple ways
00:11:38.870 --> 00:11:41.110
Um, again, I'm not talking about, you know,
00:11:41.211 --> 00:11:42.912
the UDLs and casts, you know,
00:11:42.951 --> 00:11:44.511
like little framework, I'm just, you know,
00:11:44.532 --> 00:11:45.613
picking verbiage out of it.
00:11:45.633 --> 00:11:47.293
That kind of tends to be a little bit more,
00:11:47.552 --> 00:11:48.634
um, sticky with folks.
00:11:48.653 --> 00:11:50.855
Um, and then the other one is like, uh,
00:11:50.955 --> 00:11:51.215
you know,
00:11:51.274 --> 00:11:52.294
engagement obviously is
00:11:52.335 --> 00:11:53.015
something that a lot of
00:11:53.096 --> 00:11:54.615
educators are increasingly
00:11:54.895 --> 00:11:56.956
focused about and are, you know, uh,
00:11:57.037 --> 00:11:59.798
increasingly just ed tech driven life.
00:11:59.817 --> 00:12:01.339
It's like sometimes there's.
00:12:02.219 --> 00:12:03.500
you know like the educators
00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:04.760
just need a hook right to
00:12:05.142 --> 00:12:06.403
to bring kids back to to
00:12:06.423 --> 00:12:07.624
what we were you know doing
00:12:07.644 --> 00:12:11.027
at that moment so yeah and
00:12:11.466 --> 00:12:12.347
there there seems to be
00:12:12.388 --> 00:12:15.509
like a we're like all over
00:12:15.549 --> 00:12:17.731
the place right with udl
00:12:18.153 --> 00:12:19.273
and what I mean by that is
00:12:19.312 --> 00:12:20.754
like at least in my state
00:12:21.815 --> 00:12:22.836
something that you know at
00:12:22.856 --> 00:12:23.658
least in like the last
00:12:23.697 --> 00:12:26.360
twenty years is literacy
00:12:26.642 --> 00:12:28.884
right like if you talk to
00:12:28.904 --> 00:12:30.986
an educator in California
00:12:31.648 --> 00:12:32.428
they will tell you
00:12:32.509 --> 00:12:34.932
something about literacy and how they're
00:12:36.024 --> 00:12:36.604
implementing it,
00:12:36.703 --> 00:12:37.904
how they're supporting
00:12:37.924 --> 00:12:38.544
their students with it.
00:12:39.166 --> 00:12:40.125
With the UDL though,
00:12:41.326 --> 00:12:42.067
not to say that they're the
00:12:42.106 --> 00:12:42.888
exact same thing,
00:12:42.927 --> 00:12:44.808
but you'll have some
00:12:44.828 --> 00:12:46.649
teachers who are like, oh yeah,
00:12:47.009 --> 00:12:49.631
I've gotten the training, or oh,
00:12:49.851 --> 00:12:52.653
I've never even heard of that.
00:12:52.693 --> 00:12:53.533
I'm kind of interested in like,
00:12:55.034 --> 00:12:56.596
do you see that changing or
00:12:56.975 --> 00:12:58.437
are you hopeful of like,
00:12:59.274 --> 00:13:00.956
Making it more mainstream, I guess,
00:13:00.996 --> 00:13:01.736
if I can put it that way.
00:13:01.756 --> 00:13:02.618
Yeah,
00:13:02.717 --> 00:13:03.938
I think there's a couple of things
00:13:03.958 --> 00:13:05.880
that are kind of helping push that along.
00:13:06.221 --> 00:13:08.322
One is just simple time and awareness.
00:13:08.844 --> 00:13:09.423
Sometimes,
00:13:10.345 --> 00:13:11.625
even though CAS has been around
00:13:11.666 --> 00:13:12.567
for a really long time,
00:13:12.606 --> 00:13:14.749
and UDL has by proxy been
00:13:14.889 --> 00:13:17.191
around for a long time too,
00:13:18.471 --> 00:13:20.413
You know, just as more educators,
00:13:20.533 --> 00:13:22.154
like as we know better, we do better.
00:13:22.315 --> 00:13:22.515
Right.
00:13:22.535 --> 00:13:23.336
So there's just kind of just
00:13:23.375 --> 00:13:24.636
been this generally organic
00:13:24.677 --> 00:13:25.597
spread of information as
00:13:25.677 --> 00:13:26.979
other as other people
00:13:27.058 --> 00:13:28.600
besides like the Carolyn
00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:30.140
Tomlinson's of the world who are like,
00:13:30.302 --> 00:13:30.701
you know,
00:13:30.721 --> 00:13:31.562
the main folks on
00:13:31.602 --> 00:13:32.783
differentiation and other
00:13:32.802 --> 00:13:34.004
people have like written
00:13:34.043 --> 00:13:34.904
about these things.
00:13:35.745 --> 00:13:36.725
We just simply know more
00:13:36.765 --> 00:13:37.706
information that we know
00:13:37.746 --> 00:13:39.849
that that UDL has an impact.
00:13:40.068 --> 00:13:40.288
Right.
00:13:40.308 --> 00:13:41.629
So like people then start to
00:13:41.649 --> 00:13:42.571
pay more attention to it.
00:13:43.774 --> 00:13:45.099
I think the other thing that's made it,
00:13:45.198 --> 00:13:46.341
and this is a big thing,
00:13:46.381 --> 00:13:48.869
but I do have an asterisk next to it,
00:13:48.989 --> 00:13:50.513
is also that...
00:13:51.388 --> 00:13:53.570
with udl and differentiation
00:13:53.649 --> 00:13:54.289
I'm going to kind of lump
00:13:54.350 --> 00:13:56.350
those together right now uh
00:13:56.490 --> 00:13:58.113
that for a lot of educators
00:13:58.312 --> 00:13:59.513
one of them like probably
00:13:59.673 --> 00:14:01.134
the main fear that I heard
00:14:01.154 --> 00:14:02.195
about trying to implement
00:14:02.274 --> 00:14:02.655
like either a
00:14:02.735 --> 00:14:04.317
differentiated classroom or
00:14:04.496 --> 00:14:05.417
a kind of udl based
00:14:05.437 --> 00:14:06.477
classroom was simply the
00:14:06.498 --> 00:14:07.739
amount of time that it
00:14:07.759 --> 00:14:09.240
would take the thing that
00:14:09.259 --> 00:14:10.019
has helped I think
00:14:10.061 --> 00:14:11.240
ameliorate some of those
00:14:11.280 --> 00:14:12.302
concerns but I only say
00:14:12.341 --> 00:14:13.682
this is true for for like a
00:14:13.763 --> 00:14:14.583
small percentage of
00:14:14.644 --> 00:14:17.304
educators is ai because
00:14:17.345 --> 00:14:20.768
that has given them a little bit more of
00:14:22.967 --> 00:14:23.389
Essentially,
00:14:23.408 --> 00:14:25.349
it's taken a few items off of
00:14:25.369 --> 00:14:26.568
the plate of them being
00:14:26.629 --> 00:14:27.970
able to get ideas and
00:14:28.009 --> 00:14:29.389
brainstorms about how they
00:14:29.409 --> 00:14:30.811
can better differentiate
00:14:30.831 --> 00:14:31.630
this for their students.
00:14:31.650 --> 00:14:32.650
Or they might have an app
00:14:32.931 --> 00:14:33.910
that can differentiate
00:14:33.971 --> 00:14:35.371
readings for them really, really quickly.
00:14:36.052 --> 00:14:37.331
There's lots of things out
00:14:37.351 --> 00:14:38.373
there that can do that.
00:14:38.413 --> 00:14:40.653
There's Magic School AI has stuff on that.
00:14:40.692 --> 00:14:41.974
CuriePod has stuff on that.
00:14:43.666 --> 00:14:44.866
too many AI applications
00:14:44.907 --> 00:14:46.467
right now that have all these potentials.
00:14:46.488 --> 00:14:48.288
You know, DFIT is another one, right?
00:14:48.629 --> 00:14:49.710
That have all this potential
00:14:49.730 --> 00:14:50.850
for helping us do
00:14:51.610 --> 00:14:54.994
differentiation and UDL work better.
00:14:55.014 --> 00:14:55.953
That all being said,
00:14:55.994 --> 00:14:56.654
and this is kind of my
00:14:56.754 --> 00:14:57.414
asterisk with that.
00:14:57.716 --> 00:15:01.437
One, you know, obviously there's, you know,
00:15:01.477 --> 00:15:03.298
a lot of concerns about like, you know,
00:15:03.379 --> 00:15:04.080
am I actually,
00:15:05.548 --> 00:15:07.429
truly doing better UDL work
00:15:07.450 --> 00:15:09.951
with those applications in hand.
00:15:10.471 --> 00:15:10.932
Unfortunately,
00:15:10.951 --> 00:15:11.871
there's still just not
00:15:11.912 --> 00:15:12.652
enough scientific
00:15:12.731 --> 00:15:13.773
literature that exists yet
00:15:13.793 --> 00:15:14.432
about whether these
00:15:14.472 --> 00:15:16.774
applications actually do provide
00:15:18.277 --> 00:15:19.837
an actual change in efficacy
00:15:19.977 --> 00:15:20.859
regarding about how we
00:15:20.918 --> 00:15:22.681
provide UDL and differentiation.
00:15:22.780 --> 00:15:24.322
It's just, we just don't have it yet.
00:15:24.341 --> 00:15:25.082
The literature isn't there.
00:15:25.102 --> 00:15:26.484
It hasn't been around for long enough.
00:15:27.163 --> 00:15:29.365
Um, and then two, um, it's again,
00:15:29.385 --> 00:15:29.686
it's just,
00:15:30.527 --> 00:15:31.788
it's still a minority of
00:15:31.847 --> 00:15:33.109
educators and we still have
00:15:33.229 --> 00:15:34.850
a lot of educators for very
00:15:34.870 --> 00:15:35.951
grateful reasons for a lot
00:15:35.991 --> 00:15:37.232
of them who aren't able to
00:15:37.293 --> 00:15:38.173
implement those tools in
00:15:38.192 --> 00:15:39.173
their classroom or have
00:15:39.214 --> 00:15:41.735
hesitations about doing so, you know, and,
00:15:41.836 --> 00:15:43.037
and so those kind of, again,
00:15:43.076 --> 00:15:43.837
that's why I kind of put
00:15:43.857 --> 00:15:45.719
that asterisk next to that, you know,
00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:45.919
that.
00:15:46.460 --> 00:15:47.200
For some of us,
00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:48.240
it's becoming a little bit
00:15:48.299 --> 00:15:50.441
more accessible because of
00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:51.701
those particular technologies.
00:15:52.760 --> 00:15:52.961
Yeah.
00:15:53.221 --> 00:15:55.081
No, that makes a lot of sense to me.
00:15:55.241 --> 00:15:57.961
And kind of like what I've seen heard,
00:15:58.481 --> 00:16:00.082
at least as of late, is like,
00:16:02.003 --> 00:16:02.602
where are we going to get
00:16:02.663 --> 00:16:04.004
balance between the
00:16:04.104 --> 00:16:06.083
artificial and the human intelligence,
00:16:06.183 --> 00:16:06.443
right?
00:16:07.124 --> 00:16:09.504
Yeah.
00:16:09.524 --> 00:16:10.684
That's a big concern for me, too.
00:16:12.153 --> 00:16:14.815
I guess what I wouldn't want
00:16:15.556 --> 00:16:17.576
is for teachers to lose...
00:16:18.817 --> 00:16:20.158
So let's say I go into a
00:16:20.219 --> 00:16:21.600
magic school and I develop
00:16:21.639 --> 00:16:24.322
something or I have it develop something.
00:16:26.003 --> 00:16:28.565
And while that's lovely and saves time,
00:16:29.686 --> 00:16:31.626
I still want the human eye
00:16:31.726 --> 00:16:33.889
on it to make that final call.
00:16:34.928 --> 00:16:35.909
I worry that we're going to
00:16:35.929 --> 00:16:37.770
do less of that because
00:16:37.791 --> 00:16:39.673
even if it's generating something in...
00:16:40.691 --> 00:16:43.832
I don't know, in Indiana,
00:16:44.013 --> 00:16:45.052
that should look different
00:16:45.273 --> 00:16:47.333
if the same exact output is
00:16:47.374 --> 00:16:48.815
happening in California, right?
00:16:48.914 --> 00:16:50.035
Yep.
00:16:50.155 --> 00:16:52.376
And I'm one of those people
00:16:52.417 --> 00:16:53.876
and I follow a lot of
00:16:54.518 --> 00:16:55.437
thought leaders on this who
00:16:55.477 --> 00:16:57.078
have concerns about equity and AI,
00:16:57.298 --> 00:16:58.259
just broadly speaking.
00:16:58.279 --> 00:16:59.419
So Ken Shelton has a really
00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:00.100
good book that he's
00:17:00.181 --> 00:17:01.260
recently released on this
00:17:01.280 --> 00:17:02.322
that I would recommend to
00:17:02.361 --> 00:17:03.542
folks that they read.
00:17:05.103 --> 00:17:05.803
And then if you're looking
00:17:05.823 --> 00:17:08.483
for other practical solutions,
00:17:08.523 --> 00:17:09.624
there's authors out there
00:17:09.663 --> 00:17:11.325
too who have looked more at
00:17:11.384 --> 00:17:12.164
the practical side of
00:17:12.224 --> 00:17:13.285
leveraging this technology,
00:17:13.664 --> 00:17:16.586
but more diving into the philosophical,
00:17:17.026 --> 00:17:18.406
keeping the human touch on things.
00:17:18.807 --> 00:17:19.866
Yeah, that's a really,
00:17:19.926 --> 00:17:21.867
really big concern for me overall.
00:17:23.268 --> 00:17:26.169
One is that similar to how
00:17:26.229 --> 00:17:27.808
parents are the experts on their kids,
00:17:28.769 --> 00:17:29.549
you as a teacher,
00:17:29.809 --> 00:17:30.890
you are the expert on how
00:17:30.950 --> 00:17:33.471
your students learn, not an AI machine.
00:17:34.151 --> 00:17:36.752
Um, and, and again, I, I really,
00:17:36.813 --> 00:17:38.134
really caution educators
00:17:38.255 --> 00:17:41.517
out there that just, you know, it's,
00:17:41.576 --> 00:17:42.698
it's an algorithm, right?
00:17:42.798 --> 00:17:45.941
It's, it's similar to, you know, uh,
00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:46.500
essentially.
00:17:46.961 --> 00:17:48.262
Word salad, you know, you,
00:17:48.303 --> 00:17:49.324
you put something into it
00:17:49.384 --> 00:17:50.704
and then it's going to, you know,
00:17:50.765 --> 00:17:51.905
pull from whatever sample
00:17:51.945 --> 00:17:52.866
data that it has.
00:17:52.967 --> 00:17:54.048
And hopefully that sample
00:17:54.087 --> 00:17:57.069
data is then rigorously
00:17:57.150 --> 00:18:01.554
vetted for equity and, you know, uh, and,
00:18:01.733 --> 00:18:02.815
and for bias content.
00:18:03.414 --> 00:18:05.355
And that hopefully then you're hoping it,
00:18:05.556 --> 00:18:06.915
it magically comes together
00:18:06.955 --> 00:18:08.017
into something that is
00:18:08.057 --> 00:18:09.696
going to be a resource for your kids.
00:18:10.057 --> 00:18:10.277
Now,
00:18:10.438 --> 00:18:12.938
does that mean that it can't have an
00:18:13.077 --> 00:18:14.138
outside perspective that
00:18:14.179 --> 00:18:15.818
comes in and adds like, oh, like that's,
00:18:15.858 --> 00:18:17.099
that's like, that's a moment.
00:18:17.460 --> 00:18:17.480
I,
00:18:17.500 --> 00:18:18.740
I never thought about doing that
00:18:18.779 --> 00:18:19.740
activity with my kids.
00:18:20.161 --> 00:18:20.401
Sure.
00:18:20.641 --> 00:18:21.300
Absolutely.
00:18:21.721 --> 00:18:21.941
Right.
00:18:21.980 --> 00:18:22.761
Like, you know,
00:18:23.142 --> 00:18:24.701
like I am all down for
00:18:24.781 --> 00:18:27.083
having any outside perspective, human AI,
00:18:27.363 --> 00:18:29.124
you know, like come in and say like, hey,
00:18:29.463 --> 00:18:30.703
have you thought about like, you know,
00:18:30.743 --> 00:18:31.003
trying,
00:18:31.084 --> 00:18:32.325
trying this particular activity or
00:18:32.345 --> 00:18:32.625
reading?
00:18:32.950 --> 00:18:33.150
Right.
00:18:33.851 --> 00:18:35.692
But at the end of the day,
00:18:36.574 --> 00:18:39.237
like there are there's one
00:18:39.277 --> 00:18:40.637
really expert on how your kids learn.
00:18:40.798 --> 00:18:41.219
And that's you.
00:18:41.898 --> 00:18:43.121
And that has to be kept in mind.
00:18:44.883 --> 00:18:46.044
No, I yeah,
00:18:46.144 --> 00:18:47.905
I love that perspective of like
00:18:47.945 --> 00:18:50.407
just what these different
00:18:50.448 --> 00:18:54.313
stakeholders bring in terms of value.
00:18:55.292 --> 00:18:56.874
and being very clear and
00:18:56.913 --> 00:18:59.935
transparent of how we use that value.
00:19:00.655 --> 00:19:03.117
And with respect to this
00:19:03.157 --> 00:19:07.000
conversation around AI, I would like,
00:19:07.161 --> 00:19:07.701
Nate, if you don't mind,
00:19:07.721 --> 00:19:08.862
to transition a little bit
00:19:10.202 --> 00:19:12.663
on the work you've done as an author.
00:19:14.576 --> 00:19:17.420
And so I do know that you do
00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:18.560
have two books out.
00:19:20.123 --> 00:19:22.684
And so the first one is Ditch That Tech.
00:19:24.227 --> 00:19:26.048
Curious to hear first just a
00:19:26.068 --> 00:19:26.990
little bit about that one
00:19:27.029 --> 00:19:28.652
and how that one came about.
00:19:28.991 --> 00:19:29.211
Yeah.
00:19:29.251 --> 00:19:31.914
So that one was, so back in,
00:19:32.915 --> 00:19:33.856
I think we started that
00:19:33.896 --> 00:19:35.038
book off in twenty seventeen.
00:19:35.057 --> 00:19:35.719
We kind of like started
00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:36.599
mulling the idea around.
00:19:37.099 --> 00:19:40.222
So this, again, this is pre-AI, right?
00:19:40.564 --> 00:19:42.025
In terms of like widespread, you know,
00:19:42.045 --> 00:19:43.626
people's awareness of those things.
00:19:43.646 --> 00:19:44.827
So just kind of like move
00:19:44.847 --> 00:19:46.108
that off into a segmented
00:19:46.128 --> 00:19:47.289
area of your brain for a second.
00:19:48.811 --> 00:19:51.775
And I was working as, again,
00:19:51.795 --> 00:19:52.496
as a high school history
00:19:52.516 --> 00:19:53.276
teacher at that time.
00:19:54.257 --> 00:19:54.958
I hadn't started
00:19:55.258 --> 00:19:56.539
universiting at that point,
00:19:56.619 --> 00:19:57.480
if I can use that as a verb.
00:19:58.361 --> 00:20:00.643
Um, and, uh, I,
00:20:01.223 --> 00:20:03.244
as I was working with my kids, like I,
00:20:03.345 --> 00:20:03.505
you know,
00:20:03.525 --> 00:20:04.326
like our district was
00:20:04.385 --> 00:20:05.586
implementing a lot of ed
00:20:05.626 --> 00:20:06.627
tech in the classroom.
00:20:06.748 --> 00:20:07.407
Like this is like,
00:20:07.848 --> 00:20:09.128
this is like the prime time
00:20:09.150 --> 00:20:10.309
when like people were
00:20:11.010 --> 00:20:13.532
beginning to transition out of like, uh,
00:20:13.593 --> 00:20:16.174
the smart board era, I'll call it, uh,
00:20:16.194 --> 00:20:17.375
which was like a little bit, you know,
00:20:17.395 --> 00:20:19.837
like a few decades earlier, give or take.
00:20:19.897 --> 00:20:20.117
And like,
00:20:20.137 --> 00:20:21.057
they were actually starting to
00:20:21.077 --> 00:20:22.940
look at like, okay, what if we get every,
00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:23.119
like,
00:20:23.140 --> 00:20:24.520
what if we give every kid a Chromebook?
00:20:25.261 --> 00:20:25.521
And.
00:20:27.083 --> 00:20:28.565
I and then also my mom,
00:20:28.945 --> 00:20:32.028
who was a professor of education,
00:20:32.048 --> 00:20:34.913
were like, so what are you going to do?
00:20:35.232 --> 00:20:36.174
What's the playbook?
00:20:36.755 --> 00:20:38.837
You can't just hand every
00:20:38.877 --> 00:20:39.659
kid a device and then
00:20:39.699 --> 00:20:41.922
expect that automatically
00:20:42.342 --> 00:20:43.083
teachers are going to know
00:20:43.123 --> 00:20:44.305
the best way to use these things,
00:20:44.345 --> 00:20:45.125
and neither are students.
00:20:45.970 --> 00:20:46.170
Right.
00:20:46.590 --> 00:20:48.352
And so then with that idea in mind,
00:20:48.372 --> 00:20:49.252
we went to Matt Miller,
00:20:49.292 --> 00:20:51.315
who my mom had run and
00:20:51.615 --> 00:20:53.356
circulated around at conferences before.
00:20:53.696 --> 00:20:54.938
And so the three of us wrote
00:20:55.719 --> 00:20:57.401
that book together.
00:20:57.881 --> 00:20:59.843
And so it is the third in
00:20:59.863 --> 00:21:01.163
the Ditch That Textbook series.
00:21:01.203 --> 00:21:01.964
So if you've heard of Ditch
00:21:01.984 --> 00:21:02.625
That Textbook and then
00:21:02.644 --> 00:21:03.586
there was Ditch That Homework,
00:21:03.846 --> 00:21:05.087
which he did with Alice Keeler,
00:21:05.548 --> 00:21:06.868
and then this one,
00:21:06.888 --> 00:21:08.210
which all three of us did together.
00:21:08.830 --> 00:21:10.771
uh so basically what the
00:21:10.791 --> 00:21:12.813
book did was is we really
00:21:12.833 --> 00:21:14.472
wanted to sit down and we
00:21:14.492 --> 00:21:15.894
wanted to look at could you
00:21:15.933 --> 00:21:18.994
come up with a handbook for
00:21:19.055 --> 00:21:21.316
how these devices could be
00:21:21.435 --> 00:21:22.477
used in the most effective
00:21:22.517 --> 00:21:24.978
way possible to help meet students needs
00:21:25.902 --> 00:21:26.582
And so we looked at that
00:21:26.602 --> 00:21:27.883
from a few different perspectives.
00:21:29.202 --> 00:21:31.844
We had seen other models out
00:21:31.884 --> 00:21:33.404
there about how teachers
00:21:33.424 --> 00:21:35.125
should use tech in their classroom.
00:21:36.144 --> 00:21:39.767
Some of them we were kind of inspired by,
00:21:40.027 --> 00:21:41.507
others not so much.
00:21:42.508 --> 00:21:44.127
We had seen there were a lot
00:21:44.167 --> 00:21:45.949
of them on how students in
00:21:46.009 --> 00:21:47.229
particular should be using
00:21:48.390 --> 00:21:49.509
their particular devices.
00:21:50.990 --> 00:21:56.295
And so we decided that we
00:21:56.315 --> 00:21:57.355
wanted to focus more on the
00:21:57.395 --> 00:21:58.217
teacher side of things,
00:21:58.237 --> 00:21:58.836
about how could the
00:21:58.877 --> 00:21:59.678
teachers leverage the
00:21:59.698 --> 00:22:00.980
technology in order to help
00:22:01.019 --> 00:22:01.700
meet student needs.
00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:02.520
So we were going to kind of
00:22:02.540 --> 00:22:03.961
take that particular angle on it.
00:22:04.303 --> 00:22:05.384
And that was kind of the
00:22:05.423 --> 00:22:06.345
generation of that book.
00:22:06.785 --> 00:22:09.287
So we came up with an actual
00:22:10.028 --> 00:22:11.489
framework that teachers can follow.
00:22:11.549 --> 00:22:12.430
And I can give you just a
00:22:12.470 --> 00:22:13.530
really quick rundown of it.
00:22:14.192 --> 00:22:17.114
pretty simple, um, which is, uh,
00:22:17.153 --> 00:22:18.575
so as a teacher, you know,
00:22:18.875 --> 00:22:20.036
we kind of go from like the
00:22:20.076 --> 00:22:21.296
most teacher centered use
00:22:21.316 --> 00:22:22.277
of the technology all the
00:22:22.297 --> 00:22:23.196
way down to the most
00:22:23.397 --> 00:22:24.377
student centered use of the
00:22:24.397 --> 00:22:25.739
technology and what that looks like.
00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:26.920
So I kind of like the top tier,
00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:28.441
you have like teacher led
00:22:28.621 --> 00:22:29.361
use of technology.
00:22:29.421 --> 00:22:30.961
So that would be things that, um,
00:22:30.981 --> 00:22:31.702
like a teacher would have
00:22:31.722 --> 00:22:32.462
in front of the room.
00:22:32.883 --> 00:22:33.443
So, um,
00:22:33.723 --> 00:22:35.204
and we actually gave names to all
00:22:35.244 --> 00:22:36.484
these things, uh, which,
00:22:36.525 --> 00:22:38.006
which was another kind of fun activity.
00:22:38.046 --> 00:22:38.666
And we gave them like
00:22:38.767 --> 00:22:39.747
archetypes and roles that
00:22:39.767 --> 00:22:40.647
teachers could refer to.
00:22:41.346 --> 00:22:44.348
But the first one was basically like,
00:22:44.829 --> 00:22:46.571
you know, does, you know,
00:22:46.612 --> 00:22:47.311
if the teacher's standing
00:22:47.332 --> 00:22:48.053
up at the front of the room
00:22:48.433 --> 00:22:49.114
and they're just using the
00:22:49.134 --> 00:22:49.994
technology in front of them,
00:22:50.015 --> 00:22:50.895
like a PowerPoint or
00:22:50.915 --> 00:22:52.317
someone took a Kahoot or
00:22:52.357 --> 00:22:53.378
something like that, right?
00:22:53.939 --> 00:22:55.540
And it's like, you know,
00:22:55.560 --> 00:22:56.241
the students are sitting
00:22:56.261 --> 00:22:58.284
there passively observing what's going on,
00:22:58.324 --> 00:22:59.224
but it's really the teacher
00:22:59.244 --> 00:23:00.686
who's driving the bus, right?
00:23:01.413 --> 00:23:02.474
And then we go from that all
00:23:02.494 --> 00:23:03.476
the way to then the tech
00:23:03.496 --> 00:23:04.316
becomes interactive.
00:23:04.336 --> 00:23:05.156
And I think we call that
00:23:05.217 --> 00:23:06.617
role the museum exhibitor role,
00:23:06.938 --> 00:23:08.878
because if you go to a museum nowadays,
00:23:08.898 --> 00:23:09.599
like a kids museum,
00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:11.300
everything's tangible and playable.
00:23:11.641 --> 00:23:12.382
And even though it's still
00:23:12.422 --> 00:23:13.663
the teacher who's leading
00:23:13.923 --> 00:23:15.203
the activity or choosing
00:23:15.243 --> 00:23:16.765
the content that kids are
00:23:16.865 --> 00:23:17.546
interacting with,
00:23:17.865 --> 00:23:18.705
the kids are now getting to
00:23:18.766 --> 00:23:19.787
play with it a little bit.
00:23:20.067 --> 00:23:21.127
So Kahoot might even fall
00:23:21.167 --> 00:23:22.588
into here because kids are
00:23:22.788 --> 00:23:23.990
obviously pecking away at
00:23:24.009 --> 00:23:24.750
their own computers.
00:23:25.391 --> 00:23:26.373
um but there you know
00:23:26.393 --> 00:23:27.314
there's lots of uh
00:23:27.354 --> 00:23:28.236
different examples of this
00:23:28.276 --> 00:23:29.277
out there looks like a pair
00:23:29.317 --> 00:23:30.338
deck would might fall under
00:23:30.358 --> 00:23:31.621
this right like where kids
00:23:31.661 --> 00:23:32.422
are interacting with the
00:23:32.442 --> 00:23:33.864
tech there but again still
00:23:33.884 --> 00:23:34.785
the teacher deciding what
00:23:34.805 --> 00:23:36.067
the content is how they're
00:23:36.086 --> 00:23:37.348
going to interact with it etc etc
00:23:38.358 --> 00:23:39.539
And then we get down to
00:23:39.859 --> 00:23:41.119
where then the content
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:44.001
itself starts to become, so yeah,
00:23:44.461 --> 00:23:46.202
so teacher led content to
00:23:46.722 --> 00:23:47.423
it's interactive.
00:23:47.823 --> 00:23:48.884
Now we're gonna start to add
00:23:49.023 --> 00:23:52.265
maybe that the process, excuse me,
00:23:52.285 --> 00:23:52.786
not the content,
00:23:52.806 --> 00:23:53.746
the process of how the
00:23:53.786 --> 00:23:54.506
students are gonna interact
00:23:54.526 --> 00:23:55.586
with it is gonna be up to them.
00:23:56.106 --> 00:23:56.948
so maybe they have a few
00:23:56.968 --> 00:23:57.847
different options like a
00:23:57.928 --> 00:23:58.828
menu we call this the
00:23:58.868 --> 00:23:59.990
restaurant interval that
00:24:00.009 --> 00:24:01.290
they can choose from that
00:24:01.310 --> 00:24:02.372
they would decide to go
00:24:02.392 --> 00:24:04.613
with right um and then we
00:24:04.633 --> 00:24:05.953
went to uh the council
00:24:05.973 --> 00:24:07.275
member uh which was the
00:24:07.295 --> 00:24:07.895
students are getting to
00:24:07.935 --> 00:24:08.855
vote on like you're
00:24:08.875 --> 00:24:10.136
differentiating by content
00:24:10.156 --> 00:24:11.018
at that point you're you
00:24:11.057 --> 00:24:11.538
know you're letting the
00:24:11.577 --> 00:24:12.898
kids decide and then the
00:24:12.939 --> 00:24:14.039
last one that we added in
00:24:14.059 --> 00:24:15.181
kind of at the very very
00:24:15.221 --> 00:24:16.241
most student-centered role
00:24:16.342 --> 00:24:17.702
is that the students are
00:24:17.742 --> 00:24:20.464
fully empowered they're deciding how and
00:24:21.288 --> 00:24:22.809
the ways in which they learn
00:24:22.849 --> 00:24:24.190
and Carolyn Tomlinson is
00:24:24.230 --> 00:24:25.391
kind of the kind of some of
00:24:25.411 --> 00:24:26.971
the basis of a little bit of this model.
00:24:27.550 --> 00:24:29.231
But we're also then providing really,
00:24:29.271 --> 00:24:30.231
really high end
00:24:30.913 --> 00:24:32.133
metacognitive based
00:24:32.432 --> 00:24:35.273
feedback for kids and kind
00:24:35.294 --> 00:24:36.174
of like helping them take
00:24:36.194 --> 00:24:38.095
that moment to reflect and
00:24:38.234 --> 00:24:39.016
think about the learning
00:24:39.056 --> 00:24:39.596
that they're doing.
00:24:39.635 --> 00:24:40.256
And we call that the
00:24:40.296 --> 00:24:41.276
creative art coach role.
00:24:41.896 --> 00:24:43.176
So anyway,
00:24:43.196 --> 00:24:44.017
so that was kind of the
00:24:44.057 --> 00:24:45.478
generation of that book.
00:24:45.498 --> 00:24:46.718
So really specifically,
00:24:46.778 --> 00:24:47.838
we were just kind of looking at
00:24:49.144 --> 00:24:50.565
how the teacher is utilizing
00:24:50.585 --> 00:24:51.865
that that technology in the
00:24:51.885 --> 00:24:53.105
classroom and kind of that
00:24:53.145 --> 00:24:55.527
was our main drive for how
00:24:55.567 --> 00:24:56.386
we could better address
00:24:56.406 --> 00:24:58.968
student needs yeah yeah
00:24:59.208 --> 00:25:01.008
that that's all that and
00:25:01.288 --> 00:25:02.469
what what I find most
00:25:02.929 --> 00:25:03.929
interesting about all that
00:25:04.588 --> 00:25:06.549
is that just how relevant
00:25:06.609 --> 00:25:07.329
all that still is
00:25:08.092 --> 00:25:10.792
Yeah, yeah, it's also there.
00:25:10.932 --> 00:25:11.752
Half the apps that we
00:25:11.772 --> 00:25:13.193
described in it are gone, but hey,
00:25:13.233 --> 00:25:14.213
you know, that happens, right?
00:25:14.273 --> 00:25:15.034
So like,
00:25:15.054 --> 00:25:16.734
I think we were joking about it
00:25:16.775 --> 00:25:17.755
after it came out because you were like,
00:25:17.775 --> 00:25:19.015
within like two months,
00:25:19.115 --> 00:25:20.016
like one of the apps that
00:25:20.056 --> 00:25:22.476
was on there died just because like,
00:25:22.655 --> 00:25:24.356
you know, these things happen, right?
00:25:24.396 --> 00:25:27.038
Like, you know, people decide to, you know,
00:25:27.077 --> 00:25:28.057
sell an app off to somebody
00:25:28.117 --> 00:25:29.258
else and they kill it, right?
00:25:30.098 --> 00:25:31.858
You know, rip Skype, right?
00:25:31.939 --> 00:25:34.960
But, you know, you kind of get the idea,
00:25:35.119 --> 00:25:35.339
right?
00:25:35.779 --> 00:25:37.240
And so like, you know, the, you know,
00:25:38.431 --> 00:25:38.891
we were just kind of
00:25:38.931 --> 00:25:39.511
giggling about it
00:25:39.571 --> 00:25:40.392
afterwards but all the all
00:25:40.432 --> 00:25:42.292
the principles of of what
00:25:42.313 --> 00:25:43.534
that you know book was
00:25:43.574 --> 00:25:44.674
there and talking about and
00:25:44.694 --> 00:25:45.714
advocating for are still
00:25:45.734 --> 00:25:48.196
very true yeah yeah no like
00:25:48.217 --> 00:25:49.176
quick quick little side
00:25:49.196 --> 00:25:50.617
note I was I was at a
00:25:50.657 --> 00:25:52.118
conference a few months ago
00:25:52.598 --> 00:25:54.200
where I I wasn't exhibiting
00:25:54.700 --> 00:25:56.201
which is kind of rare so I
00:25:56.221 --> 00:25:57.102
got to go like attend
00:25:57.142 --> 00:25:59.123
sessions and mind you it's
00:25:59.163 --> 00:26:00.723
been like uh I'm coming up
00:26:00.743 --> 00:26:02.064
on almost three years now
00:26:02.084 --> 00:26:03.105
that I've been out of the classroom
00:26:04.521 --> 00:26:06.123
And all of these sessions that I attended,
00:26:06.643 --> 00:26:07.003
I'm like,
00:26:07.584 --> 00:26:09.105
all of these things were not around.
00:26:09.285 --> 00:26:10.205
I'm talking about the tools,
00:26:10.945 --> 00:26:11.467
the companies.
00:26:11.646 --> 00:26:13.887
And working for a company like Kami,
00:26:13.968 --> 00:26:14.448
you learn.
00:26:15.388 --> 00:26:17.570
I know Kami inside and out.
00:26:18.111 --> 00:26:18.990
But when you go and you
00:26:19.050 --> 00:26:21.153
attend and you just want to go learn,
00:26:21.653 --> 00:26:26.076
I'm like, wait, what's a class companion?
00:26:26.115 --> 00:26:26.997
There's all these...
00:26:28.191 --> 00:26:29.633
all these things now where like,
00:26:29.673 --> 00:26:30.153
you're right.
00:26:30.193 --> 00:26:31.035
Like anything that we
00:26:31.076 --> 00:26:33.239
document or curate or, you know,
00:26:33.318 --> 00:26:34.019
like in your case,
00:26:34.039 --> 00:26:36.163
like you're writing like, Oh, cool.
00:26:36.703 --> 00:26:37.605
It was gone last week.
00:26:37.766 --> 00:26:38.086
Sweet.
00:26:38.689 --> 00:26:39.189
Yeah, I know.
00:26:39.449 --> 00:26:40.410
And that's why I,
00:26:41.589 --> 00:26:42.391
I have always been very
00:26:42.431 --> 00:26:43.751
hesitant to write books
00:26:43.832 --> 00:26:45.771
about applications specifically,
00:26:45.833 --> 00:26:48.534
because like, like, and this is why, like,
00:26:48.554 --> 00:26:49.614
for all the poor people who
00:26:49.653 --> 00:26:50.755
wrote about Flipgrid, right,
00:26:50.775 --> 00:26:52.536
which was this amazing application,
00:26:52.895 --> 00:26:53.516
you know,
00:26:53.536 --> 00:26:55.396
that Microsoft had that let it
00:26:55.416 --> 00:26:56.778
get for folks who there's
00:26:56.798 --> 00:26:57.617
an educator out there who
00:26:57.657 --> 00:26:59.638
doesn't know Flipgrid, I'm very surprised,
00:26:59.739 --> 00:27:01.259
but it maybe you're you
00:27:01.279 --> 00:27:02.240
must be like brand spanking
00:27:02.260 --> 00:27:02.980
new to the profession.
00:27:03.421 --> 00:27:05.221
But Flipgrid was this like,
00:27:05.501 --> 00:27:06.663
amazing application where
00:27:06.702 --> 00:27:07.683
students could like, you know,
00:27:07.723 --> 00:27:08.743
basically do like video
00:27:08.804 --> 00:27:09.765
entries back and forth
00:27:09.805 --> 00:27:11.185
between each other and
00:27:11.205 --> 00:27:12.006
teachers and students.
00:27:12.346 --> 00:27:13.366
And it was amazing.
00:27:13.467 --> 00:27:14.428
And educators loved it.
00:27:14.508 --> 00:27:15.409
I knew a lot of people on
00:27:15.429 --> 00:27:17.490
the Flipgrid team, like very directly.
00:27:18.570 --> 00:27:20.311
And when Microsoft, you know,
00:27:20.332 --> 00:27:22.534
eventually axed them, you know,
00:27:22.554 --> 00:27:23.354
this past year,
00:27:23.453 --> 00:27:24.494
like it was just kind of
00:27:24.535 --> 00:27:27.016
like left this huge void there.
00:27:27.057 --> 00:27:27.376
And so like,
00:27:27.477 --> 00:27:28.837
I'm always hesitant to write a
00:27:28.877 --> 00:27:29.778
book about like a very
00:27:29.817 --> 00:27:30.798
specific application and
00:27:30.838 --> 00:27:31.619
all the different ways to
00:27:31.720 --> 00:27:33.240
use it because like those
00:27:33.280 --> 00:27:34.961
things can disappear really fast.
00:27:35.642 --> 00:27:35.962
you know?
00:27:35.982 --> 00:27:36.282
Yeah.
00:27:36.844 --> 00:27:37.084
Yeah.
00:27:37.944 --> 00:27:38.425
And it had a,
00:27:39.307 --> 00:27:41.068
it had the community piece of it, right.
00:27:41.169 --> 00:27:44.212
That I think, yeah, no doubt.
00:27:45.054 --> 00:27:46.075
So with your, your,
00:27:46.925 --> 00:27:47.987
So you have the second book,
00:27:48.086 --> 00:27:49.888
which I love the title.
00:27:49.949 --> 00:27:50.048
Oh,
00:27:50.108 --> 00:27:51.269
I just realized I don't have it behind
00:27:51.309 --> 00:27:51.851
me.
00:27:52.590 --> 00:27:54.272
Oh no, it's good.
00:27:54.313 --> 00:27:55.574
Um, and hopefully I don't butcher this,
00:27:55.594 --> 00:27:59.277
but like breaking the blockbuster model.
00:27:59.297 --> 00:27:59.416
Yeah.
00:28:00.157 --> 00:28:01.278
Using ed tech and
00:28:01.318 --> 00:28:03.540
accessibility to see what's
00:28:03.621 --> 00:28:04.741
next in classrooms.
00:28:05.002 --> 00:28:06.443
I, um,
00:28:08.180 --> 00:28:10.221
So just so many thoughts go into my head.
00:28:10.321 --> 00:28:11.803
And by the way, I apologize.
00:28:11.863 --> 00:28:12.443
I've not read.
00:28:13.023 --> 00:28:13.664
You're fine.
00:28:13.744 --> 00:28:14.625
I've read your first one,
00:28:14.645 --> 00:28:15.787
but the Blockbuster one
00:28:15.807 --> 00:28:16.626
I've always wanted to pick
00:28:16.686 --> 00:28:18.068
up because I'm like, ooh, Blockbuster.
00:28:18.088 --> 00:28:18.909
I'll send you a copy.
00:28:18.929 --> 00:28:20.029
Yeah.
00:28:20.049 --> 00:28:21.050
I'm like, ooh, Blockbuster.
00:28:21.070 --> 00:28:21.991
Yeah.
00:28:22.011 --> 00:28:22.813
Yeah, I really appreciate that.
00:28:23.553 --> 00:28:25.414
So tell us a little bit about that.
00:28:25.694 --> 00:28:28.136
And I'm very keen to hear
00:28:28.156 --> 00:28:29.939
about the thematic component of all that.
00:28:30.419 --> 00:28:31.480
yeah so like this idea
00:28:31.519 --> 00:28:32.540
actually came back to me
00:28:32.580 --> 00:28:34.082
like in a blog post on a
00:28:34.142 --> 00:28:35.542
now since like blog that I
00:28:35.703 --> 00:28:36.784
that I don't utilize
00:28:36.824 --> 00:28:38.425
anymore um you know since
00:28:38.506 --> 00:28:40.007
I've shifted over to to the
00:28:40.106 --> 00:28:43.089
name of to this one um but
00:28:43.329 --> 00:28:46.633
I I kind of got hooked on this idea that
00:28:47.719 --> 00:28:49.079
I felt like there were some
00:28:49.140 --> 00:28:50.361
things about our teaching
00:28:50.401 --> 00:28:51.721
that were really antiquated
00:28:52.221 --> 00:28:54.743
that were in desperate need of a refresh.
00:28:55.505 --> 00:28:56.586
And I thought about
00:28:56.746 --> 00:28:57.967
Blockbuster being a really
00:28:57.987 --> 00:29:00.048
good metaphor for kind of like what,
00:29:00.449 --> 00:29:01.910
you know,
00:29:01.930 --> 00:29:03.971
like what that kind of looks and
00:29:04.010 --> 00:29:05.492
feels and then what that, you know,
00:29:05.532 --> 00:29:06.573
eventually in the future.
00:29:06.593 --> 00:29:07.453
And then we can talk about
00:29:07.473 --> 00:29:08.494
kind of the last chapter of the book.
00:29:09.616 --> 00:29:10.678
about what that kind of
00:29:10.698 --> 00:29:11.920
would manifest itself like.
00:29:12.039 --> 00:29:12.901
And the reason why I wanted
00:29:13.040 --> 00:29:14.262
to pick that title and why
00:29:14.303 --> 00:29:16.105
I decided to go down that
00:29:16.144 --> 00:29:17.547
route is because I think for
00:29:18.817 --> 00:29:19.699
a lot of folks who are
00:29:20.220 --> 00:29:21.059
trying to pick up a book
00:29:21.941 --> 00:29:23.082
for the first time is it's
00:29:23.122 --> 00:29:24.182
a lot easier to understand
00:29:24.202 --> 00:29:25.304
something metaphorically
00:29:25.364 --> 00:29:26.365
sometimes than it is
00:29:26.444 --> 00:29:28.567
through an artificially
00:29:28.727 --> 00:29:30.808
created framework or
00:29:30.828 --> 00:29:31.910
somebody's writing who
00:29:31.950 --> 00:29:33.352
doesn't seem to have a
00:29:33.592 --> 00:29:35.073
driving idea behind it.
00:29:35.693 --> 00:29:36.595
And so I felt like this was
00:29:36.615 --> 00:29:37.194
going to be a really,
00:29:37.234 --> 00:29:38.415
really effective vehicle
00:29:38.836 --> 00:29:41.638
for discussing essentially
00:29:43.019 --> 00:29:44.181
in kind of like a part of my
00:29:44.221 --> 00:29:45.320
motivation for this book as well.
00:29:45.340 --> 00:29:46.060
And this kind of lends
00:29:46.121 --> 00:29:48.662
itself into the title, too, was, you know,
00:29:49.021 --> 00:29:50.823
when I when I wrote Don't Ditch That Tech,
00:29:50.863 --> 00:29:51.702
like I was obviously very
00:29:51.762 --> 00:29:52.983
happy that we got the book done,
00:29:53.104 --> 00:29:54.223
but I was also kind of
00:29:54.243 --> 00:29:55.785
feeling unsatisfied by some
00:29:55.805 --> 00:29:56.984
of the answers that I had
00:29:57.704 --> 00:29:58.625
developed and come up with
00:29:58.885 --> 00:29:59.925
in there philosophically.
00:30:01.066 --> 00:30:02.186
And part of that was because
00:30:02.287 --> 00:30:03.906
I felt like while we had
00:30:03.946 --> 00:30:05.147
addressed the technology
00:30:05.188 --> 00:30:06.728
component and how to better
00:30:06.768 --> 00:30:07.769
address student needs,
00:30:08.088 --> 00:30:09.308
we hadn't taken a look at
00:30:09.328 --> 00:30:10.690
the underlying pedagogy
00:30:10.869 --> 00:30:11.549
that was happening.
00:30:12.434 --> 00:30:14.316
And I felt like I needed to
00:30:14.375 --> 00:30:15.497
talk about that because I
00:30:15.557 --> 00:30:16.336
felt like there had also
00:30:16.356 --> 00:30:17.678
been a shift in my mind,
00:30:17.758 --> 00:30:20.038
especially in my own
00:30:20.098 --> 00:30:21.819
history teaching that I
00:30:21.900 --> 00:30:23.361
needed to address in some way,
00:30:23.381 --> 00:30:24.080
shape or form.
00:30:24.642 --> 00:30:25.801
And so that kind of then
00:30:25.821 --> 00:30:27.103
became the push for me to
00:30:27.143 --> 00:30:28.282
get that book done,
00:30:29.263 --> 00:30:30.163
or at least kind of the
00:30:30.265 --> 00:30:32.506
idea of that book really.
00:30:33.422 --> 00:30:36.044
So I'll break the book down very,
00:30:36.144 --> 00:30:38.444
very quickly into it's
00:30:38.505 --> 00:30:39.525
really just three parts.
00:30:40.026 --> 00:30:42.646
So there are three models
00:30:42.686 --> 00:30:43.327
that are in the book.
00:30:43.647 --> 00:30:44.887
We have the movie theater model,
00:30:45.469 --> 00:30:46.648
we have the blockbuster model,
00:30:47.230 --> 00:30:48.911
and then we have the streaming model.
00:30:49.932 --> 00:30:51.192
And eventually,
00:30:51.374 --> 00:30:54.298
and this is kind of what something, well,
00:30:54.478 --> 00:30:55.279
we have the last chapter,
00:30:55.299 --> 00:30:56.300
which talks about like the
00:30:56.340 --> 00:30:57.282
extended universe.
00:30:57.323 --> 00:30:58.203
And we can talk about what
00:30:58.223 --> 00:30:59.286
that looks like with AI now,
00:30:59.306 --> 00:31:00.207
because that's a little bit
00:31:00.366 --> 00:31:01.288
of a different twist that's
00:31:01.368 --> 00:31:03.551
been added in there since, well,
00:31:03.592 --> 00:31:04.913
in more and more recent times also.
00:31:05.714 --> 00:31:07.436
So the movie theater model.
00:31:07.596 --> 00:31:08.557
So what does it talk about?
00:31:08.577 --> 00:31:09.439
So the movie theater model
00:31:09.479 --> 00:31:10.901
is kind of exactly what you
00:31:10.921 --> 00:31:11.981
referred to earlier about
00:31:12.021 --> 00:31:13.663
like your student teacher came in,
00:31:13.703 --> 00:31:14.805
had the idea that like I
00:31:14.825 --> 00:31:17.307
come in and I do like a
00:31:17.347 --> 00:31:17.969
very kind of like
00:31:17.989 --> 00:31:19.369
traditional history
00:31:19.431 --> 00:31:20.571
experience about me
00:31:20.612 --> 00:31:22.153
standing up at the front of the room.
00:31:22.913 --> 00:31:24.994
And it's more lecture-based,
00:31:25.055 --> 00:31:25.675
it's a little bit more
00:31:25.736 --> 00:31:27.176
teacher-centered usually.
00:31:28.777 --> 00:31:30.898
And what we do in the book is,
00:31:31.598 --> 00:31:32.558
and what I did is I really
00:31:32.740 --> 00:31:34.519
took time to take a look at
00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:35.740
that kind of teaching and
00:31:35.760 --> 00:31:36.561
learning model and to
00:31:36.602 --> 00:31:37.721
really break down like,
00:31:38.383 --> 00:31:40.123
what's the synthesis been on,
00:31:40.304 --> 00:31:41.023
does this work?
00:31:41.104 --> 00:31:41.923
What's the weaknesses and
00:31:41.943 --> 00:31:42.644
advantages of it?
00:31:42.684 --> 00:31:44.405
And how, if we have to do it, like,
00:31:44.425 --> 00:31:45.346
cause there are some times
00:31:45.747 --> 00:31:46.307
where like a really,
00:31:46.326 --> 00:31:47.267
really good lecture can
00:31:48.228 --> 00:31:49.449
change somebody's perspective.
00:31:50.148 --> 00:31:51.490
What's the ways that we can do it better?
00:31:52.450 --> 00:31:54.171
and so that that's kind of
00:31:54.191 --> 00:31:54.991
what the first section
00:31:55.031 --> 00:31:57.553
focuses on so uh you know
00:31:57.573 --> 00:31:58.614
and I can dig into more
00:31:58.653 --> 00:31:59.614
details if you'd like to
00:31:59.713 --> 00:32:01.675
but uh then the the second
00:32:01.796 --> 00:32:03.135
chapter then gets to the
00:32:03.155 --> 00:32:05.238
blockbuster uh you know uh
00:32:05.417 --> 00:32:06.657
model itself which is the
00:32:06.698 --> 00:32:07.818
the name of the book and
00:32:07.858 --> 00:32:09.400
really there I take on uh
00:32:09.819 --> 00:32:11.641
two but I'll say three main
00:32:12.362 --> 00:32:13.982
gripes of mine that really
00:32:14.022 --> 00:32:14.923
were kind of grinding my
00:32:14.982 --> 00:32:15.903
gears in education
00:32:16.384 --> 00:32:18.026
And one was textbooks,
00:32:18.385 --> 00:32:21.669
which as my contributing
00:32:21.709 --> 00:32:23.309
thought partner on the book,
00:32:24.330 --> 00:32:26.653
Matt was more than glad to
00:32:26.673 --> 00:32:27.653
hear me just go ahead and
00:32:27.673 --> 00:32:29.815
just keep taking a hard
00:32:29.836 --> 00:32:30.715
look at textbook and what
00:32:30.736 --> 00:32:31.557
we need to do with those.
00:32:32.518 --> 00:32:33.499
The second was homework.
00:32:34.805 --> 00:32:36.346
And then the third was grading.
00:32:37.048 --> 00:32:38.269
And really what the
00:32:38.308 --> 00:32:39.089
blockbuster model
00:32:39.130 --> 00:32:40.090
represented for me in the
00:32:40.111 --> 00:32:41.692
book was these kind of like
00:32:41.711 --> 00:32:43.273
traditional practices that
00:32:43.314 --> 00:32:45.115
we always had assumed were
00:32:45.135 --> 00:32:46.978
going to be there in our classrooms.
00:32:47.877 --> 00:32:48.179
And
00:32:50.026 --> 00:32:51.727
kind of are in need of a look to see like,
00:32:51.747 --> 00:32:53.446
do we still really need to be doing that?
00:32:54.807 --> 00:32:55.387
And for me,
00:32:55.468 --> 00:32:56.449
I felt like Blockbuster was a
00:32:56.489 --> 00:32:57.588
really good representation
00:32:57.608 --> 00:32:59.430
of that because, you know,
00:32:59.450 --> 00:33:00.711
like Blockbuster, you know,
00:33:00.750 --> 00:33:02.211
like I remember like, you know,
00:33:02.391 --> 00:33:03.531
like going to Blockbuster
00:33:03.551 --> 00:33:04.471
with my parents and like I
00:33:04.491 --> 00:33:05.512
would always assume like, yes,
00:33:05.853 --> 00:33:07.252
this is the way that we get
00:33:07.432 --> 00:33:08.933
video and digital content.
00:33:09.114 --> 00:33:10.414
Like if you want video games
00:33:10.494 --> 00:33:11.315
like to rent or you want to
00:33:11.335 --> 00:33:12.496
go rent like a video game
00:33:12.536 --> 00:33:13.296
console or you want to go
00:33:13.316 --> 00:33:15.156
rent a DVD or a VHS,
00:33:15.537 --> 00:33:16.676
this is how this is done.
00:33:17.357 --> 00:33:17.577
And
00:33:19.238 --> 00:33:21.480
Very fortunately for us all, you know,
00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:23.142
late fees, you know, cough, cough.
00:33:24.143 --> 00:33:25.644
Some people took some hard
00:33:25.683 --> 00:33:26.545
look at that and were like,
00:33:26.945 --> 00:33:27.645
we could do this
00:33:27.685 --> 00:33:28.646
differently and it could be
00:33:28.686 --> 00:33:30.088
better than what it is right now.
00:33:30.489 --> 00:33:32.631
And so that kind of then became for me,
00:33:32.671 --> 00:33:33.511
like the metaphor that I
00:33:33.531 --> 00:33:34.512
could attach to the second
00:33:35.032 --> 00:33:35.594
section of the book.
00:33:37.478 --> 00:33:38.678
And then the third and the
00:33:38.698 --> 00:33:40.219
last chapter is then the streaming age.
00:33:40.239 --> 00:33:41.199
And so then I take a look at
00:33:41.239 --> 00:33:42.199
something that I developed
00:33:42.219 --> 00:33:44.440
when I was teaching, which was for me,
00:33:44.500 --> 00:33:44.740
like,
00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:47.599
basically a better way to do flipped
00:33:47.780 --> 00:33:49.641
teaching was something
00:33:49.681 --> 00:33:50.881
called the cloned classroom.
00:33:51.080 --> 00:33:53.721
And so the idea behind this, and again,
00:33:54.082 --> 00:33:55.342
kind of adopting its, you know,
00:33:55.382 --> 00:33:56.403
same kind of the same
00:33:56.423 --> 00:33:57.643
metaphorical approach to like,
00:33:57.682 --> 00:33:58.923
what it looks like to, you know,
00:33:58.982 --> 00:34:00.584
be in the streaming age is like,
00:34:00.723 --> 00:34:01.983
what would it look like
00:34:03.128 --> 00:34:03.871
in education,
00:34:04.310 --> 00:34:06.715
if we could make access as
00:34:06.816 --> 00:34:07.897
universal as possible,
00:34:08.398 --> 00:34:09.481
we could meet our students
00:34:09.501 --> 00:34:10.762
where they are in terms of
00:34:10.782 --> 00:34:11.704
where they want to learn.
00:34:13.547 --> 00:34:13.807
And
00:34:15.222 --> 00:34:17.224
how could we make the
00:34:17.284 --> 00:34:19.244
experience feel a little
00:34:19.284 --> 00:34:22.106
bit more student tailored and customized?
00:34:22.226 --> 00:34:23.047
And this is something that
00:34:23.068 --> 00:34:23.807
streaming apps do
00:34:23.847 --> 00:34:25.728
fantastically because as
00:34:25.748 --> 00:34:26.949
soon as you like on Netflix,
00:34:26.989 --> 00:34:28.291
like finish watching a show, they're like,
00:34:28.311 --> 00:34:28.731
by the way,
00:34:28.751 --> 00:34:29.972
we think you would really like this,
00:34:30.032 --> 00:34:30.231
right?
00:34:30.612 --> 00:34:30.831
And like,
00:34:30.871 --> 00:34:32.152
I was kind of like trying to take
00:34:32.632 --> 00:34:34.773
an approach in our design
00:34:34.793 --> 00:34:37.295
of our classrooms that for me,
00:34:37.335 --> 00:34:39.217
like what the clone classroom is, is like,
00:34:40.077 --> 00:34:40.918
let's say that a student is
00:34:40.938 --> 00:34:41.978
gonna be absent one day,
00:34:43.097 --> 00:34:44.599
and then the next day they come back,
00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:47.380
they should have had every
00:34:47.460 --> 00:34:48.820
best possible chance and
00:34:48.900 --> 00:34:50.461
equitable opportunity in
00:34:50.501 --> 00:34:51.342
that day that they were
00:34:51.382 --> 00:34:52.943
gone for whatever reason, right?
00:34:54.184 --> 00:34:55.364
To be able to equitably
00:34:55.465 --> 00:34:56.465
access their education.
00:34:56.565 --> 00:34:57.286
Like I'm gonna give them the
00:34:57.346 --> 00:34:58.286
best shot possible.
00:34:58.686 --> 00:35:00.268
So this was not just like a
00:35:00.327 --> 00:35:01.188
flipped classroom where
00:35:01.228 --> 00:35:02.168
like they do like some of
00:35:02.188 --> 00:35:03.050
the instruction at home and
00:35:03.090 --> 00:35:03.710
some in person.
00:35:04.190 --> 00:35:06.931
It was truly a dual parallel
00:35:07.092 --> 00:35:09.193
experience that even though
00:35:09.233 --> 00:35:10.273
it necessarily wasn't the
00:35:10.333 --> 00:35:11.835
same as them being there in person,
00:35:12.494 --> 00:35:14.135
yeah I got it to be that way
00:35:14.217 --> 00:35:15.577
as close as possible to
00:35:15.617 --> 00:35:16.318
make sure that they could
00:35:16.378 --> 00:35:18.559
have universal access and
00:35:18.579 --> 00:35:19.760
then the second thing um
00:35:19.880 --> 00:35:20.402
that I kind of mentioned
00:35:20.422 --> 00:35:20.842
there was like the
00:35:20.862 --> 00:35:22.182
individualization component
00:35:22.202 --> 00:35:23.063
so trying to come up with
00:35:23.123 --> 00:35:24.344
more kind of like tailored
00:35:24.804 --> 00:35:26.025
learning streams for my
00:35:26.045 --> 00:35:26.947
students where they if they
00:35:26.987 --> 00:35:27.927
were really interested in
00:35:27.947 --> 00:35:29.289
this one topic they could
00:35:29.389 --> 00:35:31.090
decide to go deeper rather
00:35:31.130 --> 00:35:33.213
than follow like you know
00:35:33.253 --> 00:35:34.673
then somebody who like you know
00:35:36.496 --> 00:35:37.637
you have to watch only the
00:35:37.697 --> 00:35:38.697
top ten on Netflix because
00:35:38.717 --> 00:35:39.438
that's what everybody in
00:35:39.458 --> 00:35:40.259
the class is doing.
00:35:41.099 --> 00:35:41.719
I wanted to come up with
00:35:41.739 --> 00:35:42.360
something that was a little
00:35:42.380 --> 00:35:46.844
bit more tailored and personalized.
00:35:46.885 --> 00:35:48.286
So many thoughts are going
00:35:48.306 --> 00:35:49.166
through my head as you're
00:35:49.186 --> 00:35:50.807
describing this because I
00:35:50.847 --> 00:35:52.929
myself flipped my classroom
00:35:54.130 --> 00:35:55.572
and still do with my adult learners.
00:35:59.036 --> 00:36:00.016
I've always told myself if I
00:36:00.056 --> 00:36:00.797
were to go back to the high
00:36:00.817 --> 00:36:01.418
school classroom,
00:36:02.585 --> 00:36:03.786
uh there's like a there's a
00:36:03.806 --> 00:36:05.086
there's a like a list in my
00:36:05.146 --> 00:36:07.128
head of how I would flip
00:36:07.188 --> 00:36:10.009
differently now yeah um and
00:36:10.309 --> 00:36:12.210
and you kind of touched on
00:36:12.271 --> 00:36:14.952
it um and so like I think
00:36:15.072 --> 00:36:15.793
one thing that I would do
00:36:15.833 --> 00:36:16.994
differently than that that
00:36:17.153 --> 00:36:17.974
I'm doing with my adult
00:36:17.994 --> 00:36:18.875
learners right now is like
00:36:18.914 --> 00:36:20.635
that that in-class flip
00:36:21.496 --> 00:36:23.478
where to address equitable
00:36:23.557 --> 00:36:24.998
issues of like internet
00:36:25.099 --> 00:36:26.820
wi-fi make sure they do it
00:36:26.860 --> 00:36:28.159
kind of you know there's
00:36:28.280 --> 00:36:28.860
there's like there's like
00:36:28.981 --> 00:36:30.342
reasons there perhaps more
00:36:30.541 --> 00:36:32.083
more logistical but
00:36:33.476 --> 00:36:35.398
This idea of cloning,
00:36:36.958 --> 00:36:39.619
if I'm understanding this correctly,
00:36:39.820 --> 00:36:40.539
you're basically
00:36:40.619 --> 00:36:42.760
replicating what you're
00:36:42.780 --> 00:36:44.101
doing synchronously and
00:36:44.141 --> 00:36:45.862
making it asynchronous in
00:36:46.862 --> 00:36:49.143
probably an engaging way, right?
00:36:49.184 --> 00:36:49.965
That's exactly right.
00:36:50.204 --> 00:36:50.704
You've got it.
00:36:51.224 --> 00:36:54.246
And so when I talk about this in the book,
00:36:54.786 --> 00:36:56.246
I do obviously give the preface,
00:36:56.286 --> 00:36:58.628
you cannot create this overnight.
00:36:58.668 --> 00:37:01.048
It takes a while, right?
00:37:02.429 --> 00:37:03.971
But, you know, like, for example,
00:37:04.010 --> 00:37:05.612
like one thing that I would
00:37:05.652 --> 00:37:08.554
do with my kids is so like
00:37:09.775 --> 00:37:10.594
there's this graphing
00:37:10.635 --> 00:37:13.077
calculator app out there called Desmos,
00:37:14.657 --> 00:37:16.119
which many math teacher
00:37:16.159 --> 00:37:16.998
probably has heard of.
00:37:17.418 --> 00:37:20.021
Well, my approach to that,
00:37:20.061 --> 00:37:20.942
because like I was having
00:37:20.981 --> 00:37:21.922
my kids learn about
00:37:21.981 --> 00:37:22.802
something and this was a
00:37:22.842 --> 00:37:23.822
lesson we were doing on the
00:37:23.862 --> 00:37:24.603
Russian Revolution,
00:37:24.623 --> 00:37:25.503
which is already really
00:37:25.583 --> 00:37:26.824
hard for kids to understand.
00:37:26.925 --> 00:37:27.105
Right.
00:37:27.125 --> 00:37:28.045
Because they're not from there.
00:37:28.346 --> 00:37:29.166
and all the names tend to
00:37:29.186 --> 00:37:29.947
sound the same you know the
00:37:29.967 --> 00:37:31.007
same for kids who don't you
00:37:31.027 --> 00:37:32.148
know understand you know
00:37:32.447 --> 00:37:34.789
russian history um and I
00:37:34.829 --> 00:37:36.128
had one group of students
00:37:36.148 --> 00:37:37.009
who were there in person
00:37:38.050 --> 00:37:40.670
and they uh we were using
00:37:40.751 --> 00:37:42.492
desmos uh which seems like
00:37:42.512 --> 00:37:43.652
a you know like why are you
00:37:43.731 --> 00:37:44.672
using a graphing calculator
00:37:44.871 --> 00:37:46.373
what has this it has this
00:37:46.472 --> 00:37:48.813
ability this app on it that
00:37:48.833 --> 00:37:50.534
allows you to play guess
00:37:50.574 --> 00:37:53.416
who games on there and so the
00:37:53.996 --> 00:37:55.097
for students who were in
00:37:55.157 --> 00:37:57.018
class they were able to
00:37:57.059 --> 00:37:58.740
play that with the students
00:37:58.780 --> 00:38:00.021
who were still able to be
00:38:00.121 --> 00:38:02.603
absent um at the same time
00:38:03.065 --> 00:38:04.246
and so like because my
00:38:04.286 --> 00:38:05.065
because I was like really
00:38:05.106 --> 00:38:06.007
struggling like racking my
00:38:06.027 --> 00:38:06.827
brain was like man like
00:38:06.887 --> 00:38:07.869
these kids need something
00:38:07.909 --> 00:38:08.989
interactive and something
00:38:09.210 --> 00:38:11.431
fun that they can play or like they can
00:38:12.213 --> 00:38:13.032
work on some of these
00:38:13.092 --> 00:38:14.333
difficult but seemingly
00:38:14.653 --> 00:38:16.693
similarly sounding names
00:38:16.733 --> 00:38:17.753
and people and events.
00:38:18.034 --> 00:38:18.414
And I was like,
00:38:18.474 --> 00:38:19.275
I'm going to give the kids
00:38:19.315 --> 00:38:21.135
who are in class the chance to play this.
00:38:21.215 --> 00:38:22.355
And the kids who are out of class,
00:38:22.594 --> 00:38:23.715
they can also play this too.
00:38:24.615 --> 00:38:26.755
And so yes,
00:38:26.996 --> 00:38:29.257
you have nailed the exact
00:38:29.277 --> 00:38:31.097
essence of what the stream model is.
00:38:31.137 --> 00:38:32.898
But again, that takes time to set up.
00:38:32.938 --> 00:38:33.737
And it's not something that
00:38:33.757 --> 00:38:34.757
you can do right away.
00:38:34.777 --> 00:38:36.719
And so what I did is I kind
00:38:36.759 --> 00:38:38.639
of approached it very, very gradually.
00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:40.219
like I would get one lesson
00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:41.260
cloned and then I would
00:38:41.300 --> 00:38:42.400
move on to the next one.
00:38:43.782 --> 00:38:44.382
But, you know,
00:38:44.762 --> 00:38:46.143
every like the wonderful
00:38:46.163 --> 00:38:47.684
thing about it was for me
00:38:47.704 --> 00:38:49.085
is it became even though it
00:38:49.105 --> 00:38:50.224
was a little bit of a time
00:38:50.485 --> 00:38:51.465
investment up front,
00:38:52.806 --> 00:38:54.166
know getting like okay if
00:38:54.186 --> 00:38:55.168
I'm gonna have a kid do a
00:38:55.208 --> 00:38:56.568
warm-up and you know like
00:38:56.608 --> 00:38:57.929
let's say who who knows
00:38:57.949 --> 00:38:58.728
what application I was
00:38:58.809 --> 00:38:59.989
using if it was class time
00:39:00.009 --> 00:39:01.449
or pair deck or you know I
00:39:01.469 --> 00:39:03.210
would have like just a ton
00:39:03.250 --> 00:39:04.309
of them that I that I would
00:39:04.329 --> 00:39:06.271
have them use is that as
00:39:06.291 --> 00:39:07.231
soon as they knew as soon
00:39:07.271 --> 00:39:08.052
as they get in there's an
00:39:08.092 --> 00:39:09.411
embedded powerpoint on
00:39:09.452 --> 00:39:10.371
there everybody's going to
00:39:10.391 --> 00:39:11.331
have that on their device
00:39:11.351 --> 00:39:12.413
I'll also have it up on the
00:39:12.452 --> 00:39:13.833
screen we'll utilize it
00:39:13.853 --> 00:39:15.514
together right um in the
00:39:15.534 --> 00:39:17.054
class the kids at home they
00:39:17.173 --> 00:39:18.474
also can utilize the like
00:39:18.554 --> 00:39:19.554
all the same links are there
00:39:20.054 --> 00:39:21.197
um and I kind of had this
00:39:21.277 --> 00:39:22.478
like all laid out in these
00:39:22.498 --> 00:39:24.061
you know powerpoints that
00:39:24.561 --> 00:39:27.425
that kids could use um and
00:39:28.365 --> 00:39:30.168
everything was there that
00:39:30.188 --> 00:39:31.190
they could possibly need
00:39:31.570 --> 00:39:32.351
and the wonderful thing
00:39:32.371 --> 00:39:33.592
about it was then when the
00:39:33.612 --> 00:39:34.353
kids came back and they
00:39:34.373 --> 00:39:35.536
were like what did I miss I was like
00:39:36.768 --> 00:39:37.389
it's all online, man.
00:39:37.509 --> 00:39:38.449
Just, you know, it's all there.
00:39:38.590 --> 00:39:39.489
Like I, I didn't have,
00:39:39.570 --> 00:39:40.210
I don't have to make,
00:39:40.311 --> 00:39:41.610
I didn't have to make sub plans.
00:39:42.311 --> 00:39:44.572
Um, you know, I didn't need to make, uh,
00:39:44.693 --> 00:39:46.034
like late work folders.
00:39:46.673 --> 00:39:47.974
Um, none of that.
00:39:48.434 --> 00:39:49.655
Um, if kids want to be like, well,
00:39:49.675 --> 00:39:50.215
what did I miss?
00:39:50.255 --> 00:39:50.436
I don't,
00:39:50.516 --> 00:39:51.476
I don't remember anything from
00:39:51.516 --> 00:39:51.936
that lesson.
00:39:53.157 --> 00:39:54.297
It's, it's all there, man.
00:39:54.438 --> 00:39:56.358
Like it, like that's, that,
00:39:56.458 --> 00:39:57.358
that's what's wonderful
00:39:57.378 --> 00:39:59.739
about it is that it's, it's all, you know,
00:39:59.840 --> 00:40:01.360
like I, I'm not hiding anything from you.
00:40:01.780 --> 00:40:02.981
Right.
00:40:03.021 --> 00:40:04.643
I, I think, yeah, like, um,
00:40:06.592 --> 00:40:07.634
I was probably at my school,
00:40:07.653 --> 00:40:08.215
at my high school,
00:40:08.235 --> 00:40:09.155
I was probably the only one
00:40:09.195 --> 00:40:12.277
that was flipping.
00:40:12.297 --> 00:40:13.737
So I was like the outlier,
00:40:13.797 --> 00:40:16.000
the weird one in the corner that was like,
00:40:16.019 --> 00:40:17.481
oh, he's doing something very different,
00:40:17.521 --> 00:40:17.760
right?
00:40:17.780 --> 00:40:19.981
Yeah, that was me at my high school.
00:40:20.101 --> 00:40:20.742
They were like,
00:40:20.762 --> 00:40:21.804
you should flip your classroom.
00:40:21.824 --> 00:40:23.764
I'm like, I could, but like,
00:40:23.784 --> 00:40:25.826
what if I did it more than that?
00:40:25.885 --> 00:40:26.847
And that was kind of like the spot.
00:40:27.166 --> 00:40:27.768
Yeah.
00:40:27.927 --> 00:40:29.168
People were like,
00:40:29.208 --> 00:40:30.148
why are your kids not
00:40:30.168 --> 00:40:30.949
coming to your class?
00:40:31.010 --> 00:40:31.389
I was like,
00:40:31.530 --> 00:40:33.030
they can choose to come or they
00:40:33.050 --> 00:40:34.012
can choose not to.
00:40:34.311 --> 00:40:35.572
I'm okay with either one.
00:40:36.231 --> 00:40:36.532
Right.
00:40:37.753 --> 00:40:41.715
But going back to that topic of investment,
00:40:42.036 --> 00:40:43.536
which it is an investment.
00:40:43.597 --> 00:40:44.797
It took me a few years.
00:40:44.858 --> 00:40:48.199
Because I taught GovEcon and World.
00:40:48.659 --> 00:40:50.061
So those are like three
00:40:50.081 --> 00:40:51.021
different things that
00:40:51.081 --> 00:40:54.744
needed a lot of content.
00:40:54.844 --> 00:40:55.264
And so...
00:40:57.226 --> 00:40:58.547
The biggest payoff, though,
00:40:58.867 --> 00:41:00.748
and you touched on this way
00:41:00.827 --> 00:41:01.889
early on in this episode,
00:41:02.909 --> 00:41:06.329
was just the ease of analytics and data.
00:41:06.429 --> 00:41:07.449
Yeah.
00:41:07.489 --> 00:41:10.311
Because that is, I feel like,
00:41:10.431 --> 00:41:13.291
a missing piece, generally, across...
00:41:14.456 --> 00:41:15.376
all of education.
00:41:15.396 --> 00:41:16.097
Yeah,
00:41:17.137 --> 00:41:18.418
at least more like at the at the
00:41:18.458 --> 00:41:19.599
grassroots level, right?
00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:21.800
Where like, I remember, and again,
00:41:21.820 --> 00:41:22.679
going back to my student
00:41:22.719 --> 00:41:24.021
teacher that like the last
00:41:24.081 --> 00:41:26.342
one I had there.
00:41:26.382 --> 00:41:27.862
She was blown away with like, wait,
00:41:28.163 --> 00:41:31.443
you know so much about what they know.
00:41:31.623 --> 00:41:34.784
And at any given time, I'm like, yeah,
00:41:35.244 --> 00:41:37.425
like, if you have that type of insight,
00:41:37.525 --> 00:41:38.407
you're not guessing it's
00:41:38.427 --> 00:41:39.327
not guess and check.
00:41:39.887 --> 00:41:40.568
It's straight up.
00:41:40.867 --> 00:41:42.467
This is this is how we pivot.
00:41:42.668 --> 00:41:43.688
This is how we move.
00:41:44.402 --> 00:41:45.443
And this is how you know
00:41:45.543 --> 00:41:47.804
which learners in small groups,
00:41:48.865 --> 00:41:50.306
which ones can go deeper,
00:41:50.547 --> 00:41:53.028
which ones need to pull back and be like,
00:41:53.068 --> 00:41:53.628
okay, cool,
00:41:53.668 --> 00:41:55.349
this is what we're doing over here.
00:41:56.371 --> 00:41:58.032
The differentiation just
00:41:58.052 --> 00:42:00.373
takes it to a different level in my view.
00:42:02.074 --> 00:42:03.635
So I don't know what your
00:42:03.695 --> 00:42:05.336
experiences were with all that,
00:42:05.376 --> 00:42:06.898
but part of that investment
00:42:07.038 --> 00:42:08.458
was the ease of data.
00:42:08.518 --> 00:42:09.440
And once it's built,
00:42:09.579 --> 00:42:11.340
you will now have different visibility.
00:42:11.862 --> 00:42:12.543
Yeah.
00:42:12.762 --> 00:42:14.244
And, and for me, I kind of have like a,
00:42:14.603 --> 00:42:15.204
I kind of have mixed
00:42:15.224 --> 00:42:16.003
feelings about the data,
00:42:16.043 --> 00:42:17.344
but from maybe an angle you
00:42:17.364 --> 00:42:18.164
may not understand.
00:42:18.264 --> 00:42:19.644
So like one is that like, yes,
00:42:19.704 --> 00:42:20.925
I did obviously have like a
00:42:21.005 --> 00:42:22.085
ton of data that was
00:42:22.106 --> 00:42:23.106
available in my kids.
00:42:23.547 --> 00:42:23.806
Right.
00:42:24.286 --> 00:42:25.847
Like I knew when they were logged on,
00:42:26.128 --> 00:42:27.027
I knew what they knew.
00:42:27.427 --> 00:42:27.628
Right.
00:42:28.280 --> 00:42:29.382
I had a good understanding
00:42:29.422 --> 00:42:33.126
of what their writing ability was.
00:42:33.527 --> 00:42:35.668
I had a good anecdotal data too.
00:42:35.849 --> 00:42:38.190
I knew I could tell from
00:42:38.311 --> 00:42:39.092
when they were accessing
00:42:39.152 --> 00:42:40.733
resources and how many
00:42:40.773 --> 00:42:41.715
activities and assignments
00:42:41.735 --> 00:42:42.295
they were completing,
00:42:42.335 --> 00:42:43.175
how much they were studying.
00:42:44.538 --> 00:42:45.818
But then for every EdTech
00:42:45.958 --> 00:42:47.139
app that your kids use,
00:42:47.159 --> 00:42:47.760
and this is something
00:42:47.780 --> 00:42:48.902
that's just true generally
00:42:48.922 --> 00:42:49.603
across the board,
00:42:51.262 --> 00:42:52.742
excuse me,
00:42:53.202 --> 00:42:54.543
is that every single time they
00:42:54.603 --> 00:42:55.824
use a different ed tech app,
00:42:56.724 --> 00:42:58.987
especially if those apps do
00:42:59.027 --> 00:42:59.507
not have any
00:42:59.586 --> 00:43:01.507
interoperability between one another,
00:43:01.867 --> 00:43:03.568
you've created another data silo.
00:43:04.469 --> 00:43:05.429
And for me,
00:43:05.489 --> 00:43:08.032
like something that I've become
00:43:08.871 --> 00:43:09.853
not necessarily concerned
00:43:09.893 --> 00:43:10.735
about but I always want to
00:43:10.775 --> 00:43:12.657
make educators aware of is
00:43:12.697 --> 00:43:13.557
that when they're beginning
00:43:13.597 --> 00:43:14.820
to utilize edtech in their
00:43:14.840 --> 00:43:16.302
in their classroom is that
00:43:16.342 --> 00:43:17.603
as soon as you you know
00:43:17.784 --> 00:43:18.764
let's say that you and a
00:43:18.804 --> 00:43:20.547
teacher down the hall right
00:43:20.907 --> 00:43:21.869
one of you is using cami
00:43:22.130 --> 00:43:24.251
one's on pear deck one's on nearpod
00:43:25.112 --> 00:43:27.094
uh ones on you know who you
00:43:27.135 --> 00:43:28.434
know curipod right or we
00:43:28.454 --> 00:43:29.155
can keep going down the
00:43:29.175 --> 00:43:30.556
list that's four different
00:43:30.597 --> 00:43:32.197
data silos that do not
00:43:32.257 --> 00:43:33.958
right now as of this
00:43:34.018 --> 00:43:35.079
recording do not have the
00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:36.420
ability to pull data
00:43:36.820 --> 00:43:38.601
together that somebody
00:43:38.621 --> 00:43:40.262
could get a unified insight
00:43:40.282 --> 00:43:42.324
from as to what their kids are learning
00:43:43.103 --> 00:43:43.364
Right.
00:43:43.943 --> 00:43:47.025
And for me, like, again, I always am,
00:43:47.585 --> 00:43:48.425
you know,
00:43:48.445 --> 00:43:49.427
I always just kind of preface
00:43:49.447 --> 00:43:50.266
when I tell teachers, like,
00:43:50.306 --> 00:43:51.327
start implementing a tech.
00:43:52.568 --> 00:43:52.887
Yes,
00:43:52.967 --> 00:43:55.349
but and usually I'm a kind of yes and
00:43:55.389 --> 00:43:56.630
person because I like improv.
00:43:56.670 --> 00:43:59.630
But like, yes, but there is a cost,
00:44:00.550 --> 00:44:00.751
you know,
00:44:00.831 --> 00:44:02.931
to creating a new place where
00:44:02.972 --> 00:44:03.693
that is going to have
00:44:03.813 --> 00:44:04.972
insight into your children.
00:44:05.313 --> 00:44:05.994
And that is kind of the
00:44:06.034 --> 00:44:07.434
other question about like, you know,
00:44:07.494 --> 00:44:09.135
what could others also learn from it?
00:44:09.195 --> 00:44:10.195
But they can't because they
00:44:10.235 --> 00:44:11.195
might not have access.
00:44:11.635 --> 00:44:12.557
right does that kind of make
00:44:12.577 --> 00:44:14.842
sense you it makes so it
00:44:14.882 --> 00:44:15.923
makes so much sense and
00:44:15.943 --> 00:44:16.985
you're like in the moment
00:44:17.065 --> 00:44:18.768
shifting my perspective on
00:44:18.949 --> 00:44:20.773
yeah on on this topic I
00:44:21.393 --> 00:44:23.358
this this uh the way you put it
00:44:25.434 --> 00:44:29.358
these data silos of just how,
00:44:29.559 --> 00:44:30.900
and because the first thing
00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:32.021
that I thought about was like,
00:44:32.561 --> 00:44:33.141
I was using,
00:44:34.143 --> 00:44:37.025
like I had like three go-to ed tech tools,
00:44:38.547 --> 00:44:39.427
almost for the sake of not
00:44:39.547 --> 00:44:40.568
overwhelming the kids, right?
00:44:40.588 --> 00:44:44.693
Be like, cool, these are my four go-tos,
00:44:44.813 --> 00:44:45.074
right?
00:44:45.614 --> 00:44:47.695
But oftentimes when I was,
00:44:47.996 --> 00:44:48.956
especially in my early
00:44:48.976 --> 00:44:50.438
years of implementation,
00:44:51.960 --> 00:44:53.221
The data that was in these
00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:55.942
tools versus what was in
00:44:55.981 --> 00:44:57.784
the final grade book,
00:44:57.804 --> 00:45:00.704
it's almost like there had
00:45:00.724 --> 00:45:01.646
to have been a level of
00:45:01.925 --> 00:45:05.268
inaccuracy as a result of
00:45:05.947 --> 00:45:08.150
what you're describing here, right?
00:45:10.340 --> 00:45:11.481
How are you using all of
00:45:11.501 --> 00:45:13.322
them as more of a formative context?
00:45:13.461 --> 00:45:14.742
Is it more of a summative?
00:45:14.882 --> 00:45:16.364
Is it a, like,
00:45:17.545 --> 00:45:18.684
I would say a temperature
00:45:18.744 --> 00:45:20.226
check is not always the
00:45:20.365 --> 00:45:22.307
same as a formative, right?
00:45:22.367 --> 00:45:23.088
No, no.
00:45:23.208 --> 00:45:24.068
And so, like,
00:45:24.449 --> 00:45:26.230
what does all of it mean if
00:45:26.269 --> 00:45:27.811
it's not being housed in a
00:45:27.851 --> 00:45:29.952
way that is in the same place, A,
00:45:29.992 --> 00:45:31.032
but also B,
00:45:31.954 --> 00:45:34.394
that there's relationships
00:45:34.434 --> 00:45:36.275
there and trends and what
00:45:36.295 --> 00:45:37.416
does it all mean when it's
00:45:37.456 --> 00:45:39.097
all housed in the same place?
00:45:39.137 --> 00:45:39.237
Yeah.
00:45:39.425 --> 00:45:40.867
yeah and that's not to say
00:45:40.907 --> 00:45:41.728
like that you know
00:45:41.809 --> 00:45:42.931
educators can't have their
00:45:43.010 --> 00:45:44.012
own way of keeping data
00:45:44.032 --> 00:45:44.893
because we even did this
00:45:44.932 --> 00:45:45.713
before there was that tech
00:45:45.753 --> 00:45:46.514
right like you would have a
00:45:46.554 --> 00:45:47.556
kid like slap a post-it
00:45:47.577 --> 00:45:48.677
note on the door and like
00:45:48.697 --> 00:45:49.619
you know a person down the
00:45:49.659 --> 00:45:51.240
hall can't see that right
00:45:51.842 --> 00:45:52.882
um you know like because
00:45:52.902 --> 00:45:53.945
again they're down the hall
00:45:53.985 --> 00:45:54.865
they can't you know see
00:45:54.905 --> 00:45:56.027
like what's going on on the
00:45:56.047 --> 00:45:56.949
inside of your classroom
00:45:58.530 --> 00:45:59.891
And not to say that
00:45:59.931 --> 00:46:00.550
everybody should know
00:46:00.610 --> 00:46:02.032
everything your kids know
00:46:02.072 --> 00:46:04.954
at any given time, but there is,
00:46:05.773 --> 00:46:06.534
at least in a lot of the
00:46:06.574 --> 00:46:07.994
districts that I have
00:46:08.034 --> 00:46:09.235
worked and I've consulted with,
00:46:09.735 --> 00:46:14.759
is that there has become somewhat of a,
00:46:14.860 --> 00:46:16.360
I wouldn't say a backlash, but again,
00:46:16.380 --> 00:46:18.762
just a concern that we're
00:46:18.782 --> 00:46:19.722
putting too many things in
00:46:19.762 --> 00:46:21.382
too many different places.
00:46:21.563 --> 00:46:22.284
And for kids,
00:46:22.384 --> 00:46:23.204
and this is kind of what you
00:46:23.224 --> 00:46:25.025
spoke to as well, is that like,
00:46:25.706 --> 00:46:27.527
okay, for Mr. Ridgeway,
00:46:27.626 --> 00:46:28.907
I have to use these three apps.
00:46:29.246 --> 00:46:30.347
For Mr. Martinez,
00:46:30.668 --> 00:46:32.847
I need these four or these three.
00:46:32.907 --> 00:46:34.608
And sometimes they're not the same, right?
00:46:34.628 --> 00:46:37.969
And so it becomes a thing on them too.
00:46:38.389 --> 00:46:40.570
And that notwithstanding,
00:46:40.610 --> 00:46:41.530
then there's also parents
00:46:41.550 --> 00:46:42.771
and families you have to think about too,
00:46:42.791 --> 00:46:44.331
about the insight that they
00:46:44.371 --> 00:46:45.632
have into how their kids are doing.
00:46:45.911 --> 00:46:46.793
Because grades are not
00:46:46.833 --> 00:46:48.092
exactly what we'll call it
00:46:48.132 --> 00:46:49.813
the least effective way to
00:46:49.853 --> 00:46:50.534
understand how your
00:46:50.574 --> 00:46:52.014
students are doing at any certain time.
00:46:52.434 --> 00:46:52.634
So.
00:46:53.235 --> 00:46:53.394
Yeah.
00:46:53.434 --> 00:46:54.394
And there's...
00:46:55.514 --> 00:46:56.657
you can you can err on
00:46:56.757 --> 00:46:57.777
either side of that right
00:46:57.797 --> 00:46:58.820
like you can let teachers
00:46:58.860 --> 00:46:59.740
do whatever they want and
00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:00.802
then like kind of like you
00:47:00.842 --> 00:47:02.085
said like they're all doing
00:47:02.105 --> 00:47:04.248
different things but if a leader were to
00:47:05.407 --> 00:47:06.407
hey here's our app portal
00:47:07.068 --> 00:47:08.389
then teachers feel like oh
00:47:08.429 --> 00:47:09.809
I don't have choice over
00:47:09.829 --> 00:47:11.771
what it's exactly yeah it
00:47:11.791 --> 00:47:13.612
gets super complicated yeah
00:47:13.652 --> 00:47:15.614
no no doubt um with the
00:47:15.634 --> 00:47:16.554
with the time that we have
00:47:16.635 --> 00:47:18.295
left nate like uh because I
00:47:18.315 --> 00:47:19.036
do know that you have a
00:47:19.097 --> 00:47:21.438
book up and coming yeah um
00:47:21.639 --> 00:47:24.021
that you're working on
00:47:24.041 --> 00:47:26.943
still hacking away at it still
00:47:28.398 --> 00:47:29.739
It looks like AI is involved
00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:30.780
with it as well as the
00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:32.143
pedagogy and the creativity.
00:47:32.684 --> 00:47:33.885
I'm curious to hear just a
00:47:33.905 --> 00:47:35.246
little bit about it and
00:47:35.306 --> 00:47:37.027
what folks should expect out of it.
00:47:37.588 --> 00:47:37.849
Yeah,
00:47:37.869 --> 00:47:40.972
so I really am wanting to take kind
00:47:41.012 --> 00:47:44.657
of my swipe at where I feel
00:47:44.697 --> 00:47:48.320
like the intersection of ed tech and
00:47:49.242 --> 00:47:51.324
Um, and also UDL to an extent, uh,
00:47:51.344 --> 00:47:53.788
you know, cause I, I can't leave that,
00:47:53.907 --> 00:47:54.829
that part of it out of there.
00:47:54.849 --> 00:47:57.192
Um, I, I just can't help myself.
00:47:57.873 --> 00:48:00.775
Um, and, but also really then I,
00:48:00.976 --> 00:48:03.440
I really want to think about how, um,
00:48:05.606 --> 00:48:06.786
how how we think about
00:48:06.907 --> 00:48:08.447
design and about creation
00:48:09.108 --> 00:48:10.690
um not necessarily about
00:48:10.730 --> 00:48:11.831
creativity although it kind
00:48:11.871 --> 00:48:12.532
of does you know
00:48:12.891 --> 00:48:14.112
tangentially reflect upon
00:48:14.132 --> 00:48:15.574
that but I really wanted to
00:48:15.614 --> 00:48:16.514
take a moment to think
00:48:16.534 --> 00:48:18.737
about um you know ed tech
00:48:18.856 --> 00:48:20.018
accessibility and then the
00:48:20.038 --> 00:48:20.818
kind of the state of where
00:48:20.838 --> 00:48:21.938
things are right now in
00:48:21.998 --> 00:48:22.940
education and I think
00:48:22.980 --> 00:48:24.300
that's kind of what all of
00:48:24.320 --> 00:48:25.501
my books have done to an
00:48:25.561 --> 00:48:27.103
extent but this one is
00:48:27.143 --> 00:48:28.123
again just kind of more
00:48:28.143 --> 00:48:30.045
addressing the recent things with um
00:48:30.978 --> 00:48:31.338
AI.
00:48:31.860 --> 00:48:33.840
So for me, like,
00:48:34.300 --> 00:48:36.123
I want to kind of look at two key things.
00:48:36.163 --> 00:48:36.902
And this is what I've kind
00:48:36.922 --> 00:48:37.844
of put on the blog is kind
00:48:37.864 --> 00:48:38.784
of like my main like
00:48:38.824 --> 00:48:41.525
driving questions forward
00:48:41.565 --> 00:48:43.688
is that I want to look at the, you know,
00:48:43.728 --> 00:48:44.188
because again,
00:48:44.407 --> 00:48:46.349
we're in this generative AI, you know,
00:48:46.409 --> 00:48:46.650
kind of
00:48:48.110 --> 00:48:48.371
Right.
00:48:48.791 --> 00:48:49.972
Where there's all these
00:48:49.992 --> 00:48:51.472
questions about like who owns this.
00:48:51.813 --> 00:48:52.014
Right.
00:48:52.034 --> 00:48:52.753
About like, you know,
00:48:52.775 --> 00:48:53.934
when a generative AI model
00:48:53.954 --> 00:48:54.576
makes something.
00:48:54.755 --> 00:48:54.996
Right.
00:48:55.215 --> 00:48:56.237
Because there's also, you know,
00:48:56.257 --> 00:48:57.858
copyright concerns around that.
00:48:58.139 --> 00:48:58.918
But then there's also lots
00:48:58.940 --> 00:49:00.059
of questions for teachers, too,
00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:02.322
about like if a student uses AI,
00:49:02.461 --> 00:49:04.244
is that actually the
00:49:04.284 --> 00:49:05.425
students work or is it
00:49:06.005 --> 00:49:06.985
something that's like is it
00:49:07.005 --> 00:49:08.427
a hybrid or is it not the
00:49:08.447 --> 00:49:09.268
students work at all?
00:49:09.628 --> 00:49:10.789
And depending on who you ask,
00:49:10.809 --> 00:49:11.630
they will have very,
00:49:11.670 --> 00:49:13.090
very passionate feelings about that.
00:49:14.231 --> 00:49:15.512
And so what I want to do
00:49:15.952 --> 00:49:17.532
kind of two things is like, one is like,
00:49:17.632 --> 00:49:18.853
I want to take a look at, you know,
00:49:19.233 --> 00:49:20.875
the very core essence of
00:49:20.954 --> 00:49:22.916
what makes us creative or
00:49:23.115 --> 00:49:26.117
at least designers really as humans.
00:49:26.476 --> 00:49:27.318
And I want to kind of look
00:49:27.358 --> 00:49:29.338
at what that process can
00:49:29.398 --> 00:49:30.378
and should feel like.
00:49:31.119 --> 00:49:32.880
um both from an educator's
00:49:32.940 --> 00:49:34.061
perspective but then also a
00:49:34.101 --> 00:49:35.961
student perspective as well
00:49:35.981 --> 00:49:37.202
because I think students
00:49:37.641 --> 00:49:39.903
need a chance to play and
00:49:39.923 --> 00:49:40.903
to be creative and that's
00:49:40.923 --> 00:49:41.523
something that I'm going to
00:49:41.543 --> 00:49:43.005
talk about um pretty
00:49:43.045 --> 00:49:43.846
directly in the book
00:49:44.045 --> 00:49:44.846
because I feel like that's
00:49:44.865 --> 00:49:45.626
something that's kind of
00:49:46.266 --> 00:49:47.347
for me like I noticed this
00:49:47.387 --> 00:49:48.268
especially over the holiday
00:49:48.288 --> 00:49:48.907
break when I was taking
00:49:48.927 --> 00:49:49.889
time away from my kids it's
00:49:49.929 --> 00:49:51.329
like I had time to play
00:49:51.349 --> 00:49:52.210
with my kids and I can't
00:49:52.230 --> 00:49:53.150
remember the last time that
00:49:53.170 --> 00:49:54.431
like I had time with my
00:49:54.490 --> 00:49:56.112
students just to do that is
00:49:56.132 --> 00:49:57.793
to like play and you know
00:49:57.873 --> 00:50:00.454
invent dumb stuff right um
00:50:01.114 --> 00:50:01.355
But,
00:50:02.155 --> 00:50:03.757
and then the second thing is I want to
00:50:03.797 --> 00:50:06.199
look at then with that in
00:50:06.239 --> 00:50:08.563
mind about how humans create and like,
00:50:08.943 --> 00:50:10.764
again, I'm going to kind of, in the book,
00:50:10.804 --> 00:50:11.987
I will kind of define that as like,
00:50:12.027 --> 00:50:12.947
that's really what makes us
00:50:12.967 --> 00:50:14.849
humans is that we can, you know, be,
00:50:14.869 --> 00:50:15.771
we can be innovative and we
00:50:15.791 --> 00:50:16.751
can be creative, right?
00:50:16.771 --> 00:50:17.893
We can design unique
00:50:17.913 --> 00:50:18.813
solutions to problems.
00:50:19.474 --> 00:50:21.376
is that okay with that in
00:50:21.416 --> 00:50:22.817
mind how do we approach
00:50:22.836 --> 00:50:24.097
this this ai thing with
00:50:24.137 --> 00:50:24.998
thinking about equity and
00:50:25.018 --> 00:50:27.059
accessibility um because
00:50:27.099 --> 00:50:29.000
for me like that layers in
00:50:29.139 --> 00:50:31.840
a whole nother uh you know
00:50:31.860 --> 00:50:33.181
a whole nother can of worms
00:50:33.282 --> 00:50:34.641
about what it means about
00:50:34.681 --> 00:50:35.963
like what you know
00:50:36.143 --> 00:50:38.164
creativity and feedback can look like
00:50:38.643 --> 00:50:39.324
Like we can, you know,
00:50:39.364 --> 00:50:40.585
talk about that element of it.
00:50:41.206 --> 00:50:42.748
We could, you know, we could look at,
00:50:43.347 --> 00:50:44.068
you know,
00:50:44.208 --> 00:50:45.489
like how could students and
00:50:45.530 --> 00:50:46.510
teachers maybe leverage
00:50:46.550 --> 00:50:48.532
this for brainstorming, you know,
00:50:48.572 --> 00:50:51.014
capabilities, but then still utilize it,
00:50:51.094 --> 00:50:52.315
you know, as something that's, you know,
00:50:52.655 --> 00:50:53.956
like I can get, you know,
00:50:53.976 --> 00:50:55.237
a bunch of solutions or, you know,
00:50:55.458 --> 00:50:56.958
idea solutions from, you know,
00:50:56.998 --> 00:50:58.501
chat GPT or Gemini or
00:50:58.521 --> 00:50:59.762
whatever I happen to be using.
00:51:00.659 --> 00:51:02.581
But could I could I take
00:51:02.621 --> 00:51:03.523
that in a way then that can
00:51:03.563 --> 00:51:05.385
still inspire me to go do something else?
00:51:05.605 --> 00:51:05.844
Right.
00:51:06.425 --> 00:51:07.726
So I think I think a lot of
00:51:07.766 --> 00:51:08.648
it is going to be breaking
00:51:08.708 --> 00:51:12.271
down a lot of the myths and
00:51:12.311 --> 00:51:14.713
conceptions and just again,
00:51:14.753 --> 00:51:16.574
kind of breaking, you know,
00:51:16.614 --> 00:51:17.715
to borrow a previous title
00:51:18.096 --> 00:51:19.277
about how we think about.
00:51:20.018 --> 00:51:21.659
who owns what we make and
00:51:21.679 --> 00:51:23.641
how we feel about what people make,
00:51:23.681 --> 00:51:25.202
whether it's our students or ourselves,
00:51:25.561 --> 00:51:27.503
kind of in this in this new kind of age,
00:51:27.583 --> 00:51:30.005
especially when it regards to education.
00:51:30.304 --> 00:51:31.025
So that's kind of where
00:51:31.465 --> 00:51:32.527
that's kind of like my very
00:51:32.586 --> 00:51:34.007
brief overview and synopsis
00:51:34.047 --> 00:51:35.429
of what I'm kind of working
00:51:35.489 --> 00:51:36.429
on thinking on so far.
00:51:36.750 --> 00:51:39.032
yeah no I love that I I I
00:51:39.251 --> 00:51:40.373
love the idea of like
00:51:41.134 --> 00:51:42.195
someone like yourself like
00:51:42.815 --> 00:51:43.795
disaggregating that a
00:51:43.815 --> 00:51:45.458
little you know yeah to a
00:51:45.498 --> 00:51:47.119
degree and and and really
00:51:47.159 --> 00:51:48.260
like when we see it in
00:51:48.320 --> 00:51:51.202
pieces I think it helps the
00:51:51.242 --> 00:51:53.403
broader audience understand like this
00:51:54.331 --> 00:51:55.512
this new kind of sometimes
00:51:55.552 --> 00:51:57.835
scary thing that we're... Yeah.
00:51:58.135 --> 00:51:58.936
Part of it is going to have
00:51:58.956 --> 00:52:00.117
to talk about AI literacy
00:52:00.197 --> 00:52:01.297
because people need to know
00:52:01.737 --> 00:52:04.199
how these things work, right?
00:52:04.260 --> 00:52:05.621
A lot of folks,
00:52:06.061 --> 00:52:08.103
when teachers casually run
00:52:08.123 --> 00:52:09.744
into AI the first time,
00:52:10.143 --> 00:52:11.324
they might not even realize
00:52:11.385 --> 00:52:13.007
that they've actually been used...
00:52:13.721 --> 00:52:14.621
of folks only realize this
00:52:14.661 --> 00:52:15.641
technology has been with us
00:52:15.661 --> 00:52:17.563
a very very long time it
00:52:17.603 --> 00:52:19.324
just it just has a new face
00:52:19.344 --> 00:52:20.764
and name and that's why
00:52:20.923 --> 00:52:22.005
it's it's intimidating
00:52:22.144 --> 00:52:23.364
right like youtube utilizes
00:52:23.445 --> 00:52:24.346
algorithms which are the
00:52:24.385 --> 00:52:26.867
basis of a lot of ai um you
00:52:26.887 --> 00:52:28.487
know uh deep thinking
00:52:28.527 --> 00:52:30.969
models and then uh you know
00:52:31.148 --> 00:52:32.690
even like when you get onto
00:52:32.710 --> 00:52:33.710
your phone and it does you
00:52:33.730 --> 00:52:34.789
know facial recognition
00:52:35.010 --> 00:52:36.570
right like that that is the
00:52:36.831 --> 00:52:38.871
that is a basis of how a
00:52:38.952 --> 00:52:40.052
lot of these very very
00:52:40.092 --> 00:52:41.213
advanced programs work is
00:52:41.253 --> 00:52:42.153
pattern recognition
00:52:42.793 --> 00:52:43.855
right so like a lot of it is
00:52:43.875 --> 00:52:44.795
going to be D miss you know
00:52:44.856 --> 00:52:45.896
demystifying some of those
00:52:45.936 --> 00:52:47.838
components but not to say
00:52:47.858 --> 00:52:48.737
that they also don't have
00:52:48.798 --> 00:52:49.978
really really big concerns
00:52:50.099 --> 00:52:52.181
too right like you know
00:52:52.481 --> 00:52:53.422
there I think there is a
00:52:53.461 --> 00:52:54.463
lot of valid questions
00:52:54.483 --> 00:52:55.463
about like if you give a
00:52:55.503 --> 00:52:56.543
student an essay prompt and
00:52:56.563 --> 00:52:57.684
the student slaps the essay
00:52:57.724 --> 00:52:59.266
prompt into chat GPT
00:52:59.606 --> 00:53:00.327
whether or not that's
00:53:00.387 --> 00:53:01.327
actually their writing or
00:53:01.367 --> 00:53:03.289
somebody else's right but
00:53:03.349 --> 00:53:04.769
that then involves okay so
00:53:04.789 --> 00:53:05.731
what do you do with that like
00:53:05.971 --> 00:53:06.911
Do you take time with your
00:53:06.952 --> 00:53:07.871
students and parents and
00:53:07.931 --> 00:53:09.012
families and help break
00:53:09.052 --> 00:53:10.152
down your understanding of
00:53:10.353 --> 00:53:12.954
that and what that looks and feels like?
00:53:13.474 --> 00:53:16.077
So in my college course that
00:53:16.177 --> 00:53:17.416
I recently taught here,
00:53:18.637 --> 00:53:20.239
my approach to AI with the
00:53:20.259 --> 00:53:22.099
kids was I will let you use
00:53:22.179 --> 00:53:24.061
AI on whatever you want to
00:53:24.101 --> 00:53:25.121
for any class assignment.
00:53:25.221 --> 00:53:25.922
The only thing you have to
00:53:25.942 --> 00:53:27.161
do is you have to tell me if you use it.
00:53:27.362 --> 00:53:27.682
That's it.
00:53:28.532 --> 00:53:29.514
And so that way I can know
00:53:29.574 --> 00:53:32.157
who's writing I'm grading, right?
00:53:32.699 --> 00:53:34.001
Am I grading the prompt that
00:53:34.021 --> 00:53:35.121
you engineered to put in
00:53:35.161 --> 00:53:36.563
there when you decided to
00:53:36.664 --> 00:53:37.945
put that into a homework assignment?
00:53:38.447 --> 00:53:41.710
Or am I grading the actual like,
00:53:42.132 --> 00:53:42.753
I need to know,
00:53:42.893 --> 00:53:43.753
like I need some background,
00:53:43.793 --> 00:53:45.175
I need some context, right?
00:53:45.856 --> 00:53:47.998
and usually like when I
00:53:48.018 --> 00:53:48.860
would give kids writing
00:53:48.880 --> 00:53:50.001
assignments then in class
00:53:50.501 --> 00:53:51.362
um because you know they
00:53:51.402 --> 00:53:52.282
were doing it with with a
00:53:52.342 --> 00:53:54.523
paper and a pencil um you
00:53:54.543 --> 00:53:55.485
know there wasn't the
00:53:55.525 --> 00:53:56.925
chance there to use ai so
00:53:56.945 --> 00:53:57.827
the results that I got them
00:53:57.847 --> 00:53:58.987
were very different right
00:53:59.128 --> 00:54:01.170
but um you know a lot of it
00:54:01.230 --> 00:54:01.931
is just going to be kind of
00:54:01.971 --> 00:54:04.253
taking some time and you
00:54:04.273 --> 00:54:05.574
know thinking about okay so
00:54:05.594 --> 00:54:06.614
you want to do this so
00:54:06.655 --> 00:54:07.635
what's the cost and how do
00:54:07.655 --> 00:54:08.576
we break it down how do we
00:54:08.596 --> 00:54:09.376
better understand it
00:54:11.106 --> 00:54:11.847
I love that approach.
00:54:14.028 --> 00:54:15.210
Just tell me what you did.
00:54:17.891 --> 00:54:19.713
That's awesome.
00:54:20.574 --> 00:54:25.599
We're getting up to the end here, Nate.
00:54:27.208 --> 00:54:28.409
one one thing that we always
00:54:28.469 --> 00:54:30.750
ask our our guest and you
00:54:30.769 --> 00:54:31.610
may have already touched on
00:54:31.670 --> 00:54:35.873
it um but right now what is
00:54:36.094 --> 00:54:37.414
what is top of mind for you
00:54:37.755 --> 00:54:39.416
in education I've got a few
00:54:39.436 --> 00:54:40.076
things that I'm kind of
00:54:40.135 --> 00:54:41.157
rattling around in my brain
00:54:41.597 --> 00:54:43.597
one is um a rather
00:54:43.637 --> 00:54:44.719
controversial question that
00:54:44.739 --> 00:54:45.619
I've been thinking about
00:54:45.778 --> 00:54:47.099
but for me which kind of
00:54:47.119 --> 00:54:48.141
like hurts my heart that
00:54:48.161 --> 00:54:49.481
I'm thinking about it but
00:54:49.541 --> 00:54:51.523
is have we differentiated too far
00:54:52.673 --> 00:54:54.896
And what I mean by that is
00:54:55.177 --> 00:54:56.938
that part of education and
00:54:56.978 --> 00:54:58.701
part of what we seek as
00:54:58.760 --> 00:55:01.364
educators is a community of
00:55:01.423 --> 00:55:02.686
students who can work and
00:55:02.706 --> 00:55:03.686
who can function and can
00:55:03.746 --> 00:55:05.168
learn from each other, right?
00:55:05.934 --> 00:55:07.675
And I wonder, and again,
00:55:07.695 --> 00:55:08.914
this is something that I'm
00:55:08.974 --> 00:55:10.335
thinking about as I'm
00:55:10.516 --> 00:55:11.677
working on this next book
00:55:11.717 --> 00:55:13.097
and as I'm meditating on,
00:55:13.657 --> 00:55:15.898
is that as we are seeking so,
00:55:15.958 --> 00:55:18.699
so much that this app can
00:55:18.820 --> 00:55:20.681
individualize your education for you,
00:55:21.820 --> 00:55:23.882
or this app is going to
00:55:23.902 --> 00:55:24.762
give your students
00:55:24.802 --> 00:55:26.103
customized writing feedback
00:55:26.182 --> 00:55:27.043
on just their writing,
00:55:29.139 --> 00:55:30.860
And the more that I think about it,
00:55:31.461 --> 00:55:32.083
I don't think there's
00:55:32.143 --> 00:55:33.385
necessarily such a thing as
00:55:33.505 --> 00:55:35.327
differentiating too far as
00:55:35.387 --> 00:55:36.949
much as are we losing out
00:55:37.010 --> 00:55:38.150
on some of those larger,
00:55:39.487 --> 00:55:41.570
communal moments of learning
00:55:41.710 --> 00:55:43.271
and conversation from each
00:55:43.331 --> 00:55:45.313
other that because we are
00:55:45.434 --> 00:55:47.215
so invested especially
00:55:47.275 --> 00:55:49.217
after covet about like well
00:55:49.297 --> 00:55:50.079
you're going to be sitting
00:55:50.119 --> 00:55:51.400
behind a screen by yourself
00:55:51.420 --> 00:55:52.561
in a room for hours and
00:55:52.581 --> 00:55:53.061
you're not going to be
00:55:53.101 --> 00:55:54.063
talking or you know
00:55:54.143 --> 00:55:55.403
learning or you know
00:55:55.423 --> 00:55:56.485
reading facial expressions
00:55:56.505 --> 00:55:57.286
or body language or
00:55:57.326 --> 00:55:58.246
communicating or having
00:55:58.286 --> 00:55:59.829
dialogue with people back and forth
00:56:00.543 --> 00:56:02.045
And that's something that
00:56:02.065 --> 00:56:03.746
I'm kind of trying to, for me,
00:56:04.527 --> 00:56:05.289
I'm thinking about it the
00:56:05.349 --> 00:56:07.271
more and more that I see a
00:56:07.311 --> 00:56:09.092
lot of these ed tech apps
00:56:09.112 --> 00:56:10.373
and educators out there who
00:56:10.434 --> 00:56:12.815
are very genuinely excited
00:56:12.856 --> 00:56:14.297
about delivering really
00:56:14.338 --> 00:56:15.778
customized learning for their kids.
00:56:17.344 --> 00:56:18.403
I keep thinking about and
00:56:18.423 --> 00:56:19.344
keep coming back to this
00:56:19.425 --> 00:56:21.885
idea that we do still need
00:56:21.925 --> 00:56:24.106
to have moments of shared
00:56:24.146 --> 00:56:26.427
vulnerability and learning
00:56:26.507 --> 00:56:29.327
from one another about
00:56:29.367 --> 00:56:32.608
where we are in our educational journeys.
00:56:33.548 --> 00:56:34.768
But regardless of content
00:56:34.809 --> 00:56:35.708
area or profession,
00:56:35.728 --> 00:56:36.628
that's just something that
00:56:36.648 --> 00:56:37.530
I've been thinking about.
00:56:38.690 --> 00:56:40.070
That is interesting because
00:56:40.190 --> 00:56:40.931
at the end of the day,
00:56:40.990 --> 00:56:42.070
we still want to make sure
00:56:42.090 --> 00:56:45.391
that we're humanizing the profession.
00:56:46.474 --> 00:56:48.876
and doing it in a way that, yeah,
00:56:48.916 --> 00:56:50.458
the tool can be involved with that,
00:56:51.217 --> 00:56:55.159
but we should not expect to
00:56:55.221 --> 00:56:56.780
have it do all this.
00:56:56.800 --> 00:56:58.501
It can't build relationships, right?
00:56:58.782 --> 00:56:59.282
Right, right.
00:56:59.643 --> 00:57:01.905
Yeah, yeah.
00:57:01.965 --> 00:57:02.385
Love that.
00:57:02.525 --> 00:57:02.925
Love that.
00:57:03.105 --> 00:57:03.364
Yeah.
00:57:05.146 --> 00:57:06.166
And as time goes on,
00:57:06.186 --> 00:57:07.987
obviously these tools are going to change,
00:57:08.628 --> 00:57:09.469
adapt, and evolve.
00:57:10.610 --> 00:57:11.851
My big hope, though...
00:57:12.867 --> 00:57:14.809
and not to toot my own horn
00:57:14.949 --> 00:57:16.971
or or anything but like I
00:57:16.990 --> 00:57:17.851
feel one thing that my
00:57:17.891 --> 00:57:20.853
company does well is listen
00:57:20.893 --> 00:57:22.855
to that teacher input that
00:57:22.894 --> 00:57:24.096
leader input of like what
00:57:24.215 --> 00:57:26.777
is working what's not um I
00:57:26.797 --> 00:57:28.338
just hope that we're that
00:57:28.438 --> 00:57:29.659
enough of them are gonna do
00:57:29.679 --> 00:57:32.260
that yeah um to make sure
00:57:32.300 --> 00:57:34.141
that you know because the
00:57:34.181 --> 00:57:34.762
things that are gonna be
00:57:34.782 --> 00:57:36.003
needed in even just ten
00:57:36.043 --> 00:57:37.264
years is gonna be different
00:57:37.284 --> 00:57:37.925
than this moment
00:57:39.505 --> 00:57:41.465
So, yeah, no, Nate, we,
00:57:41.806 --> 00:57:43.847
we really appreciate you coming on,
00:57:44.047 --> 00:57:45.387
being a part of this conversation,
00:57:45.407 --> 00:57:46.248
being a part of the show.
00:57:46.788 --> 00:57:47.547
Thanks for having me.
00:57:47.568 --> 00:57:48.349
I really appreciate it.
00:57:48.469 --> 00:57:49.108
Yeah, no.
00:57:49.268 --> 00:57:50.048
And, and for,
00:57:50.088 --> 00:57:53.471
for everybody that is listening, watching,
00:57:55.030 --> 00:57:57.032
putting up Nate's website here,
00:57:57.052 --> 00:57:58.612
I believe that's the correct one there.
00:57:58.632 --> 00:57:59.913
Yeah.
00:57:59.932 --> 00:58:01.474
That's blockbuster.com.
00:58:01.594 --> 00:58:01.833
Yep.
00:58:02.713 --> 00:58:04.954
And so just putting it up on screen there.
00:58:06.034 --> 00:58:06.775
Good stuff.
00:58:06.795 --> 00:58:08.496
I was kind of poking my,
00:58:08.775 --> 00:58:10.657
my way through this earlier today.
00:58:10.717 --> 00:58:11.536
That's a great way.
00:58:11.836 --> 00:58:13.237
And Nate, correct me if I'm wrong.
00:58:13.338 --> 00:58:15.059
It's a great place to find you.
00:58:15.559 --> 00:58:16.219
Yeah.
00:58:16.518 --> 00:58:16.958
I haven't,
00:58:17.039 --> 00:58:18.179
I haven't posted on there very
00:58:18.239 --> 00:58:19.139
recently just cause we had
00:58:19.159 --> 00:58:21.021
our third baby here really recently.
00:58:21.101 --> 00:58:22.981
So, but I should be here.
00:58:23.521 --> 00:58:24.041
Oh, thanks.
00:58:24.181 --> 00:58:24.922
He's, he's fun.
00:58:24.961 --> 00:58:25.623
He's very easy,
00:58:25.702 --> 00:58:27.342
which is thank God for the
00:58:27.362 --> 00:58:28.844
third kid that he's easy.
00:58:29.003 --> 00:58:31.164
But you know, I,
00:58:33.094 --> 00:58:34.615
There will be lots more coming there soon.
00:58:34.757 --> 00:58:35.277
I have no doubt.
00:58:35.838 --> 00:58:36.097
Yeah.
00:58:36.777 --> 00:58:37.378
No, that's good.
00:58:37.418 --> 00:58:37.759
That's good.
00:58:38.260 --> 00:58:38.639
Cool.
00:58:38.659 --> 00:58:41.663
I'll be sure to drop this episode today.
00:58:42.342 --> 00:58:43.885
It'll have Nate's links.
00:58:44.364 --> 00:58:44.545
Nate,
00:58:44.605 --> 00:58:47.208
I believe like your main place of
00:58:47.288 --> 00:58:49.068
presence is the sky.
00:58:50.309 --> 00:58:51.351
Yeah.
00:58:51.371 --> 00:58:52.612
For just like general social media.
00:58:52.672 --> 00:58:53.233
Yeah.
00:58:53.313 --> 00:58:53.813
Yeah.
00:58:53.914 --> 00:58:54.213
Awesome.
00:58:54.514 --> 00:58:55.074
Cool, cool, cool.
00:58:56.010 --> 00:58:56.471
All right, friends.
Nathaniel Ridgway
Nate: Nate is a tech-loving history and educational consultant from Indianapolis, Indiana and author of two books on teaching. Don’t Ditch That Tech: Differentiation in a Digital World, and Breaking the Blockbuster Model: Using Edtech and Accessibility to “See What’s Next” in Classrooms. He was the Indiana Connected Educator of the Year in 2020 and his work has been featured in such publications as the New York Times and Washington Post. He also holds a Master’s Degree in History from the University of Indianapolis. He is currently in the early stages of drafting his third book, this one themed on the intersection of AI, pedagogy, and creativity.